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erronis

(22,652 posts)
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 10:49 AM Apr 2025

Rightwing populists will keep winning until we grasp this truth about human nature -- George Monbiot

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/13/trump-populists-human-nature-economic-growth

Economic inequality breeds resentment and a desire to get even. That’s what fuels support for even incompetent regimes

He’s really gone and done it this time. Now everyone can see what a disaster he is.” How many times have we heard this about Donald Trump? And how many times has it been proved wrong? Well, maybe this time he really has overstepped. After all, his clowning around with tariffs, sparking trade wars, then suddenly reversing his position, could provoke a global recession, perhaps even a depression. Surely his supporters will disown him? But I’m not banking on it, and this is why.

Already, Trump has waged war on everything that builds prosperity and wellbeing: democracy, healthy ecosystems, education, healthcare, science, the arts. Yet, amid the wreckage, and despite some slippage, his approval ratings still hold between 43 and 48%: far higher than those of many other leaders. Why? I believe part of the answer lies in a fundamental aspect of our humanity: the urge to destroy that from which you feel excluded.

. . .

There is strong evidence of a causal association between growing inequality and the rise of populist authoritarian movements. A paper in the Journal of European Public Policy found that a one-unit rise in the Gini coefficient (a standard measure of inequality) increases support for demagogues by 1%.

Why might this be? There are various, related explanations: feelings of marginalisation, status anxiety and social threat, insecurity triggering an authoritarian reflex and a loss of trust in other social groups. At the root of some of these explanations, I feel, is something deeply embedded in the human psyche: if you can’t get even, get mean.

. . .
48 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Rightwing populists will keep winning until we grasp this truth about human nature -- George Monbiot (Original Post) erronis Apr 2025 OP
Then why don't people turn on the rich? leftstreet Apr 2025 #1
Because all maga gonna be millionaires as soon a tRump gets goobermint out of their way Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2025 #3
"...tRump's regime is the authoritarian goobermint they have always feared..." BoRaGard Apr 2025 #9
Because the rich guy is blaming the immigrants and the women and the woke EdmondDantes_ Apr 2025 #12
No, all rich are not blaming minorities and women JI7 Apr 2025 #26
loved that dress Celerity Apr 2025 #33
Pedantic argument EdmondDantes_ Apr 2025 #42
Technically speaking, people are as likely to go... regnaD kciN Apr 2025 #28
Left-wing populism isn't much better. Self Esteem Apr 2025 #32
Because corporate media (all of it, not just Faux Noise) drmeow Apr 2025 #38
K&r nt Fiendish Thingy Apr 2025 #2
This Implies a Nasty Circularity FrankTC Apr 2025 #4
Well said. And that collapse and demise won't happen pleasantly. Visions of guillotines... erronis Apr 2025 #5
Sort of like watching toddlers playing. Biophilic Apr 2025 #6
As I grow older, I think more often of a scene from a movie... keep_left Apr 2025 #7
For some reason I'd completely forgotten that scene. Biophilic Apr 2025 #8
Could be the reason for Fermi's Paradox. LudwigPastorius Apr 2025 #44
Makes sense... keep_left Apr 2025 #45
After he is done in 2028, I don't think people will be hungering for more of Republican crap LymphocyteLover Apr 2025 #10
Term limits are for losers. King trump (or his dynasty) will rule forever. erronis Apr 2025 #11
yes, there is that LymphocyteLover Apr 2025 #13
Trump will be done in '28 and we will have elections in '26? You're more optimistic than I am. elocs Apr 2025 #40
I think we will have elections in 2026. I don't think Trump will be done himself LymphocyteLover Apr 2025 #48
DON'T OVERTHINK IT. The rich and the wannabe Hitlers know which buttons to push. usonian Apr 2025 #14
24/7/365 right wing propaganda news is fueling this concept in a big way. hadEnuf Apr 2025 #15
They aren't "populists." They are demagogues. valleyrogue Apr 2025 #16
They don't even have to be populists to win BaronChocula Apr 2025 #17
Makes me think of victims' acceptance of the abusers in many situations. erronis Apr 2025 #19
And yet Stockholm Syndrome BaronChocula Apr 2025 #27
old enough to remember when Democrats were populists and GOP'ers were globalist pigs. WarGamer Apr 2025 #18
Right wing populism is based on fear as well: fear of change, fear of the unknown, and fear of the other andym Apr 2025 #20
Trump sold himself as a populist by being anti-establishment, that's it. Republicans are not populists. betsuni Apr 2025 #21
It's brainwashing; it's the mass media Mysterian Apr 2025 #22
I didn't know that T.V.s had built-in channels. Thought it was based on the cable provider. erronis Apr 2025 #34
Every brand of smart TV has their own set of streaming channels Mysterian Apr 2025 #37
I guess I'd come at it from a slightly different angle. meadowlander Apr 2025 #23
I really like your explanation. And it's not just education, but the ability to think critically. erronis Apr 2025 #24
There are educated, well to do MAGAs who are hateful and mean people. Irish_Dem Apr 2025 #31
You can get a degree without being educated and you can be educated without a degree. meadowlander Apr 2025 #39
Yes the topics you list appear to be quaint relics of yesteryear. Irish_Dem Apr 2025 #41
Hear Freaking Hear!! OldBaldy1701E Apr 2025 #47
It doesn't bother them that Elon Musk the wealthiest man in the world JI7 Apr 2025 #25
Author doesn't understand that for Republican voters the wealthy are in the "Us" category, not the "Them." betsuni Apr 2025 #35
LBJ was right alarimer Apr 2025 #29
Here's my version of this ancient truth: Morbius Apr 2025 #43
This is the result of 40 years of grooming by republicans... Bread and Circuses Apr 2025 #30
Why can't everybody just do their own lives? EnergizedLib Apr 2025 #36
Yes, and there IS a Way Forward--as the editorial concludes SorellaLaBefana Apr 2025 #46

leftstreet

(38,805 posts)
1. Then why don't people turn on the rich?
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 11:05 AM
Apr 2025

If it's deeply embedded in the psyche, why not get "mean" with the rich?

Bernardo de La Paz

(60,320 posts)
3. Because all maga gonna be millionaires as soon a tRump gets goobermint out of their way
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 11:31 AM
Apr 2025

They don't realize it yet, but tRump's regime is the authoritarian goobermint they have always feared. They haven't clued in because the cult members haven't seen the economy turn down yet.

Going from 4% to 8% unemployment means 7 million more workers unemployed for a total of 14 million. That's one in 12 of the workforce, one in 24 of the whole population.

maga will notice when their neighbour loses their job and their house, but it will be too late.

BoRaGard

(7,591 posts)
9. "...tRump's regime is the authoritarian goobermint they have always feared..."
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 01:05 PM
Apr 2025

There you have it.

EdmondDantes_

(1,359 posts)
12. Because the rich guy is blaming the immigrants and the women and the woke
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 01:23 PM
Apr 2025

They are promising a return to the way things used to be. It's easier to blame the person you see getting a job instead of the guy behind the scenes taking your job.

JI7

(93,207 posts)
26. No, all rich are not blaming minorities and women
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 03:37 PM
Apr 2025

When wealthy liberals speak they have no problem attacking them as elites and other bs.

They attacked Harris for buying pots and pans in France. They attacked AOC for wearing a designer dress . But they have no problem with Trump and Musk.

EdmondDantes_

(1,359 posts)
42. Pedantic argument
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 09:37 PM
Apr 2025

Obviously not every single one is, but you can say that about literally any group that not everyone in it behaves exactly the same without it discrediting the larger truth. Right wing populist movements around the world are anti-immigrant, anti-women etc. Yes obviously Trump has money but he puts on the trappings of a more common man. Not that I blame her, but you wouldn't see Kamala Harris at a UFC fight for example.

regnaD kciN

(27,463 posts)
28. Technically speaking, people are as likely to go...
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 03:53 PM
Apr 2025

…for a left-wing populist as they are a right-wing one, as long as they know about each alternative.

However, here in the U.S., we’ve had almost three decades of a major cable channel pushing the right-wing narrative 24/7…while left-wing voices are shut out of even “liberal” channels and shows. As a matter of fact, said channels and shows are far more likely to platform “moderate” conservatives than left-wing populists.

Give us a leftist equivalent to Fox News for thirty years, and the political landscape of this country would look far different.

 

Self Esteem

(2,248 posts)
32. Left-wing populism isn't much better.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 04:40 PM
Apr 2025

If anything, they often overlap. Just look at trade and tariffs. Left-wing and right-wing populism both embrace protectionist economics. Perot and Buchanan were no different on trade and tariffs than a lot of the left-wing populists of yesteryear. They also tend to become anti-immigrant for the same reason they oppose free trade and support higher tariffs: they believe an outdated philosophy about American jobs. Go listen to Bernie from a decade-plus ago speak about immigration and it's almost indistinguishable from Trump.

Populism is a cancer and liberals should not embrace it. It's rooted in jingoism and division.

drmeow

(5,928 posts)
38. Because corporate media (all of it, not just Faux Noise)
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 06:15 PM
Apr 2025

convinces the American people that someone other than the rich are to blame AND that they could be rich some day.

FrankTC

(260 posts)
4. This Implies a Nasty Circularity
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 11:46 AM
Apr 2025

Evidently inequality leads to authoritarianism, while authoritarianism leads to crony capitalism and greater inequality. That’s objectively the reality — a self-reinforcing feedback dynamic that seems hard to interrupt. On the other hand, there is a perceptual challenge. Subjectively, MAGAts will have to be convinced that support for the authoritarian order represents a blow against the elites who are oppressing them. This is the agenda of right-wing media operations. Eventually the internal contradiction can lead to its collapse and demise.

erronis

(22,652 posts)
5. Well said. And that collapse and demise won't happen pleasantly. Visions of guillotines...
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 11:52 AM
Apr 2025

Biophilic

(6,402 posts)
6. Sort of like watching toddlers playing.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 12:27 PM
Apr 2025

Destruction apparently feels good especially if it’s something someone else built.

keep_left

(3,159 posts)
7. As I grow older, I think more often of a scene from a movie...
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 12:34 PM
Apr 2025

...that I hope isn't an ultimate and final truth about us.

"It's in your nature to destroy yourselves".

?si=DV1kHgW9d7mbiMtG

LudwigPastorius

(14,161 posts)
44. Could be the reason for Fermi's Paradox.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 10:38 PM
Apr 2025

A species that evolves to the top of the food chain by killing, can't turn that off to thrive over the long term.

keep_left

(3,159 posts)
45. Makes sense...
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 11:12 PM
Apr 2025

...and we've certainly become really good at killing each other. Whether or not the concept generalizes to other civilizations remains to be seen (assuming they exist, or existed)--but then again, I wouldn't be surprised. I think Carl Sagan referred to this as "technological adolescence"; he considered it extremely dangerous if a culture couldn't evolve quickly out of this stage of development. One might as well give a gorilla an atomic bomb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Drake_equation#Fermi_paradox

LymphocyteLover

(9,361 posts)
10. After he is done in 2028, I don't think people will be hungering for more of Republican crap
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 01:09 PM
Apr 2025

Already his poll numbers are the worst ever, even on the economy. Dems should be able to win back the House in 2026.

Have to remember a lot of the little things we political nerds care about aren't a big for most people, but a crappy economy or a mishandled pandemic ARE big deals.

erronis

(22,652 posts)
11. Term limits are for losers. King trump (or his dynasty) will rule forever.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 01:14 PM
Apr 2025

Of course there won't be any country worth ruling by then.

 

elocs

(24,486 posts)
40. Trump will be done in '28 and we will have elections in '26? You're more optimistic than I am.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 07:17 PM
Apr 2025

And Trump will just go quietly into that good night waiting for his legal woes on time-out now to return.

LymphocyteLover

(9,361 posts)
48. I think we will have elections in 2026. I don't think Trump will be done himself
Mon Apr 14, 2025, 07:06 AM
Apr 2025

but the country will be done with him and yes, it won't be easy to dislodge hm from the WH

usonian

(23,535 posts)
14. DON'T OVERTHINK IT. The rich and the wannabe Hitlers know which buttons to push.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 01:36 PM
Apr 2025


And get the yokels to vote against their own interests and needs.

"You're flat busted broke, begging for food money, and sick as hell but YOU OWNED THE LIBS"

Now,

hadEnuf

(3,522 posts)
15. 24/7/365 right wing propaganda news is fueling this concept in a big way.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 01:49 PM
Apr 2025

It's basically what they say every day. Somehow, Republicans are always getting screwed by Democrats, even when it's clearly Trump and the Republicans fault.

Media brainwashing. If they didn't have it, they would implode.

valleyrogue

(2,571 posts)
16. They aren't "populists." They are demagogues.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 01:51 PM
Apr 2025

Trump is a demagogue.

The last thing Democrats should do is appeal to people who are far gone politically, who are racists and sexists and xenophobes.

Eff all of them. Let them die out.

Naturally, the author of the piece is a white male from the UK. Clueless.

Stay the eff out of US politics, George.

BaronChocula

(4,030 posts)
17. They don't even have to be populists to win
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 01:58 PM
Apr 2025

They need only be conservative and white. Your run-of-the-mill non-progressive (from the middle to the far right) white voters believe such myths as republicans (white conservative men) are better at handling the economy and republicans (white conservative men) are better at handling national security. Nothing can be further from the truth. Yet the pass given to white conservatives from white voters is mind-boggling. And it's an American tradition.

erronis

(22,652 posts)
19. Makes me think of victims' acceptance of the abusers in many situations.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 02:11 PM
Apr 2025

Just to quote one random article: https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/articles/why-do-victims-go-back-to-their-abusers/

4 Reasons Victims Go Back to Their Abusers

Unequal Power.
Manipulation.
Hope.
Love.


andym

(6,052 posts)
20. Right wing populism is based on fear as well: fear of change, fear of the unknown, and fear of the other
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 02:12 PM
Apr 2025

Metathesiophobia, agnostophobia, neophobia (fear of new things) and xenophobia. All of these can be seen to be working. Moreover, the anti-immigrant policies that so characterize modern day right wingers around the world, play to fear of the other, which is often tied to scapegoating ("they are eating the pets" ).

Scapegoating is closely related to fear of the other:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-seek/201312/the-psychology-of-scapegoating
"The ego defense of displacement plays an important role in scapegoating, in which uncomfortable feelings such as anger, frustration, envy, guilt, shame, and insecurity are displaced or redirected onto another, often more vulnerable, person or group. The scapegoats—outsiders, immigrants, minorities, 'deviants'—are then persecuted, enabling the scapegoaters to discharge and distract from their negative feelings, which are replaced or overtaken by a crude but consoling sense of affirmation and self-righteous indignation."

Finally, right wingers create fictional problems to overcome: rampant attacks by drug gangs of "illegals" seems to be one of these themes. Facing a common threat enhances in-group cohesion.

betsuni

(28,705 posts)
21. Trump sold himself as a populist by being anti-establishment, that's it. Republicans are not populists.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 02:30 PM
Apr 2025

Trump voters did not do so because of economic insecurity.

Mysterian

(6,175 posts)
22. It's brainwashing; it's the mass media
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 02:40 PM
Apr 2025

I bought a new Samsung tv. It's pre-loaded with about 10 right-wing news channels. Newsmax, Blaze, Real America's Voice. Extreme right wing garbage and lies. There is no left wing or simply honest,objective news equivalent. Same across the board with other brands. Just shows how much the right wing has taken over the media. Propaganda works. People are so brainwashed they lose their kid to measles and stay anti-vax. That's what we're up against. Gullibility and propaganda.

erronis

(22,652 posts)
34. I didn't know that T.V.s had built-in channels. Thought it was based on the cable provider.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 04:50 PM
Apr 2025

Haven't had one of those things for a decade or more so I'm blissfully ignorant.

Mysterian

(6,175 posts)
37. Every brand of smart TV has their own set of streaming channels
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 06:01 PM
Apr 2025

like LG channels and Samsung channels. I'm disgusted to see all those right-wing garbage news channels on there in the default lineup. You can take them all off but I'm sure a lot of old timers like me don't fool around through the somewhat complicate menus to remove them from their guide.

meadowlander

(5,097 posts)
23. I guess I'd come at it from a slightly different angle.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 02:54 PM
Apr 2025

A lot of Trump supporters aren't marginalised economically. They participate in the economy on the same footing as everyone else. The trucks and boats being driven in those flag waving convoys aren't cheap.

The gap is in education. My theory is that society has become more and more complex as technology gives us more things to worry about and manage. A hundred years ago if your house flooded or there was an earthquake you just wrote it off as God's will and rebuilt it when you could, often with the help of your neighbours. But now you have to try to get your insurance company to reimburse you or not based on whether their flood or seismic modelling could reasonably have predicted the event or not. If you bought somewhere you shouldn't have because you didn't do your due diligence, you're fucked. And you can't just rebuild your own house, it needs to be up to code.

You don't just get a check when you retire. You have to create a 401K and make decisions about the stock market. You have to predict where the job market is going and retrain five or six times of the course of your career with gaps of unemployment in-between. Your employer isn't going to pay to train you - you have to anticipate what they need and pay to train yourself. You have to hire someone to fix your car and set up your TV for you. You have to keep track of a million different subscriptions that it's a pain in the ass to cancel but which are sucking you dry behind the scenes.

You have to keep in mind constant updates about what to eat, whether or not to drink alcohol, how much to exercise, etc. As a voter, you need to understand proposed policy on stem cell research, genetically modified food, climate change, gender diversity, AI, regulation of toxic chemicals, foreign aid as a instrument of soft powers, nuclear containment, lowering drug prices and managing risk from pandemics.

And all of these demands have left a lot of people behind. Particularly the 66% of Americans who don't at least have a four year college degree. They don't have a clue how to lower the price of eggs or housing or incentivize clean energy or encourage on-shoring of industries in the national interest and they're pissed off that they're being asked to think about it on top of everything else. So they are burning down the system that is asking them to think about it. They want easy answers they can understand and they want to hear "just get on with your life and we'll take care of everything else for you".

And so yes, they want to stick it to the smarty-pants because deep down they know that society is leaving them behind and the one thing they can understand is that they don't really control the forces that are impacting their lives. So they want to destroy the club of people who they think do. And it's easier to blame the party that can't offer easy answers than it is to blame the system that is putting them in that position in the first place.

erronis

(22,652 posts)
24. I really like your explanation. And it's not just education, but the ability to think critically.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 03:02 PM
Apr 2025

Lots of non-college-degreed individuals have plenty of smarts and have succeeded in many ways in this world (not just the Bill Gates but also self-taught craftspeople, etc.)

Perhaps the problem is the jealousy that happens when your example "big biggy boat owners" realize that their cognitive skills just aren't up to living in this more complex world.

Irish_Dem

(79,777 posts)
31. There are educated, well to do MAGAs who are hateful and mean people.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 04:13 PM
Apr 2025

Trump appeals to the dark underbelly of human nature.

Some years ago a friend of mine attended a holiday party, some of the people there
were MAGAs, educated with money. They were gloating and joyous talking about how
Nancy Pelosi's husband had almost been killed by a intruder with a hammer, giving him
serious head injuries.

My friend was shocked.

meadowlander

(5,097 posts)
39. You can get a degree without being educated and you can be educated without a degree.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 06:53 PM
Apr 2025

My concern is with the extent to which the humanities have been cut out of curriculum in favor of STEM and then you get a lot of young people with advanced degrees who don't understand ethics, morality, logic, civics, political science, critical thinking, law, history, psychology, etc.

I would consider those people also "uneducated" and ill equipped to function responsibly in a more complex society.

Irish_Dem

(79,777 posts)
41. Yes the topics you list appear to be quaint relics of yesteryear.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 09:29 PM
Apr 2025

Which as resulted in the total moral and civic duty collapse, the greatest in US history.

OldBaldy1701E

(10,170 posts)
47. Hear Freaking Hear!!
Mon Apr 14, 2025, 06:29 AM
Apr 2025
You can get a degree without being educated and you can be educated without a degree.


https://i.postimg.cc/JnvvLCP8/temp-Image-Vf-Yi-Hj.avif

(After some of the 'educated' people I have had the pleasure of working with, I can most certainly attest to the complete truthfulness of this statement.)

JI7

(93,207 posts)
25. It doesn't bother them that Elon Musk the wealthiest man in the world
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 03:32 PM
Apr 2025

takes control of government and fires people. It doesn't bother them that Trump is wealthy. In fact they brag about it.

But they are happy about a labor union guy being deported to El Salvador prison.

Can he explain this ?

Why this need to see white bigots as victims all the time ?

betsuni

(28,705 posts)
35. Author doesn't understand that for Republican voters the wealthy are in the "Us" category, not the "Them."
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 05:18 PM
Apr 2025

The dream of a populist yelling-revolution 99% vs 1% uprising against billionaires and oligarchs is impossible.

 

alarimer

(17,146 posts)
29. LBJ was right
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 03:59 PM
Apr 2025

"If you can convince the lowest white man that he is better than the best black man (he actually used colored), he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him someone to look down on and he'll empty his pockets for you."

This is what Trump and Musk have done: convinced poor whites that actually immigrants are to blame instead of rich people like Trump and Musk. Why anyone believes them, I'll never know.

Morbius

(893 posts)
43. Here's my version of this ancient truth:
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 09:49 PM
Apr 2025

The man who has little may well resent the man who has a lot, but he fears the man who has nothing, lest he lose the little he has.

People will put up with all kinds of deprivations as long as they see someone worse off than themselves.

Bread and Circuses

(1,556 posts)
30. This is the result of 40 years of grooming by republicans...
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 04:01 PM
Apr 2025

Peddling Fear and Hate.

Remember, Ronnie Reagan started it all by making fun of the federal government and belittling President Carter.

All Republicans are responsible for the fascist regime that is taking over,

EnergizedLib

(2,928 posts)
36. Why can't everybody just do their own lives?
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 05:33 PM
Apr 2025

People lost their minds over a trans person appeared in a Bud Light commercial.

Do you know what impact that had on my life?

Not. One. Iota.

If you don’t like it, change the channel or shut off the TV. That’s what a rational person would do.

The problem is, rationality isn’t exactly in charge right now.

SorellaLaBefana

(480 posts)
46. Yes, and there IS a Way Forward--as the editorial concludes
Mon Apr 14, 2025, 06:13 AM
Apr 2025
...Starmer and his minions suggest there’s nothing they can do: wealthy people are already taxed to the max. As private jets and helicopters cross the skies, anyone can see this is nonsense... the gap between the rich and the poor is rougly the same after taxes are levied, suggesting that taxation has no further significant effect on income distribution. How could this possibly be true, when the rich pay higher rates of income tax? It’s because the poor surrender a much higher proportion of their income in sales taxes, such as VAT. So much for no further options. So much for Labour realism.

The one thing that can stop the rise of the far right is the one thing mainstream parties are currently not prepared to deliver: greater equality. The rich should be taxed more, and the revenue used to improve the lives of the poor. However frantically centrist parties avoid the issue, there is no other way

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/13/trump-populists-human-nature-economic-growth

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