By coddling them we are allowing them to continue with their anti-trans, anti-women, anti-democrat, anti-POC and so forth.

They want sympathy for "their" pain that is caused by their own actions.

That's the problem for me as well. The fact that most of them are only upset because they got affected too and not just "those people" makes it extremely difficult for me to be suddenly nice to people who still hate me for no reason.

Anybody got suggestions on that? I'm open, seriously.

The orange stain will never go away.

The author specifically addresses that...

People are raw right now.

We've arrived at peak Merica

Kidnapping and deportations, no problem.

Canceling kids cancer research, no problem.

Broadcasting war plans & state secrets on an unsecure app, no problem.

Dismantling the federal government, no problem.

Fuck with my money, PROBLEM.

He's an ex smoker. Same with alcoholics. One drink won't hurt anything. Throwing red meat to republicans won't have any effect.
Is a sarcasm tag needed here?

been done and we've got years of it to endure ahead of us.

It’ll take decades to get out of this mess.

Make it more about the lies they were told and not about their gullibility. They were betrayed by the people they trusted most.

If we can convince one fux/oann/etc viewer to start screaming at their T.V. that is a win.

but it does occur to me that we can't both wonder aloud why so many people keep supporting Trump while also ostracizing the ones that signal they are ready to stop because we think their reasons morally inferior to our own.

or building an election-winning coalition?

And it works against us because they know that our usual route is "sternly worded letter encouraging doing the right thing" and we give a whole lot of slack before actual claws come out that we don't know how to use completely because we rarely get to that point. Our primary weapon of choice is logical snark and sarcasm, hoping people will realize the error of their ways because we never want to feel like we're *forcing* someone to change their way of thinking.

So it is difficult to not engage in reactive schadenfreude and FAFO which is basically useless except for entertaining podcasts, but there's a point where people truly have learned a lesson and want to change and we should be judiciously welcoming.

I mean this in the context of private citizens, not politicians because they are employees who are paid to know better.

Then we'd be smart to respectfully welcome them as they are - the point is to detox from Dear Leader. Working on the obvious cultural issues is another effort entirely, and will take time.

There are good people on their side. They are literally being brainwashed. It makes me really upset Russia/trump turned good people into hateful, ignorant, ambivalent monsters.

The magats/trumpers may be more susceptible to well-crafted false information.

That's why Paul Manafort sold polling data to the USSR. And how Cambridge Analytica influenced the election.

I was starting high school when that motherfucker got elected. I could immediately see right through him -- that he was a moron, a phony, a fascist, a liar and a puppet for very evil far right forces. He wasn't a "great communicator." He could barely read a teleprompter. He got off on cruelty (against black people, women, poor people, people with AIDs, and on and on). I couldn't believe that many of the adults around me weren't seeing what I was seeing.

A flying g fuck for their “feelings”.

Fuck. Them.

At least Black Americans can see it.

I will judge thrm.
I will never trust them.
No soft spots.
Punish them.
We are talking about Jim Crow.
We are not letting them get away with it this time.

You want to activate the 92%? Give the RACIST, Sexist white folks a free fucking pass.

They need to eat their shit sandwich.

They don’t feel exceptional anymore but they will still vote for Tuberville, Handjob Bobert and Marjorie Green. They just want a change on top of the marquee. They still appreciate the rest of the acts on stage.

I would smile and say “good.” But we would not be friends. Following him in the first place revealed a value system based on hate. They had that value system before the cancer of trump took hold, and regardless of what they think of the man, they will still have that value system if they leave him behind. Rejecting one horrible man does not mean they won’t glom onto the next one to come down the pike. No thanks.

I don't have it in me anymore to baby them along.

my ex-friend, my oldest brother, my niece and almost her entire family...I don't see much movement.

And tell them it would help if they could sound the alarm so that we don't get fooled again.

It seems so, but capacity for shame and compassion seems a prerequisite, some better reasoning to avoid the NEXT time, but no, they may not be people you can take for granted.

If they don't address those hot buttons of theirs, and learn to rein them in, they'll continue to be manipulated by the same people.

One of the biggest most important things we can do is use these moments of revelation to guide them to understand that empathy helps themselves. Some sadly will never see it but it is worth a try because you can open many eyes.

They got where they are (maga then wavering then reforming) because of a lack of empathy for others. I would suggest helping them see that. Not as a "rub their nose" in it moment, but as "this is how you can avoid this mistake in the future".

Democratic and Republican Americans are remarkably similar. Build on that. In general, the following things are true:

Both love their families deeply. Will fight to protect them.

Both love their country. Will fight to protect it.

Both sincerely believe in their religions or lack thereof.

Both fiercely believe in justice.

Both strongly desire and defend freedom.

However the key difference is that Democrats, progressives, and liberals add empathy for broader communities.

The Republicans / RepubliConned lack empathy and that distorts the beliefs they have in common with us. Propaganda and divisiveness have polarized the populace and made the distortion worse. Racism, misogyny, sexism (anti 2SLGBTQ+) and religious bigotry result from the lack of empathy. In particular, it warps their religion and their sense of justice.

They think (and have been trained) that they need to protect their families from the "other". Of course that is false since their worst enemies ultimately are their own unempathic groups. We all repeat the Rev Neimoller "First they came" thing in variations. maga believe they are immune. When they are turning is the moment to let them know that they are not immune.

They think (and have been trained) that love of their country requires them to reject diversity and inclusion. When they are turning, teach them that empathy is not weakness.

They think (and have been trained) that religious fervour requires bigotry and discrimination. Teach them that protecting the rights of others protects their own rights. Show them that narrow-minded rejection of others did not protect them from the tRump regime.

They think (and have been trained) that justice demands that anyone outside of their group should be treated harshly and those within the group should be treated gently. Find ways to teach them that justice requires justice for all or there will be justice for none.

They think (and have been trained) that justice demands that people outside of their group do not deserve the same degree of freedom as they deserve. Find ways to teach them that freedom means freedom for all or there will be freedom for none.

When you encounter a crushed maga, don't crush them more. That only teaches them to retreat from empathy. Show them empathy (however hard that is) and guide them to opening up and growing their empathy. Teach them empathy by being empathic. Be the change you desire.

Nobody is pure, nobody is a saint. Those who can't forgive others will not be forgiven themselves. A lack of forgiveness is a lack of empathy.

All young children have empathy for all others. Just like all two year olds are scientists but have it beaten out of them by the culture, so too do many of them have empathy beaten out of them by the culture and the power structure.

What needs to be done requires empathy that will be hard to muster but must be done. If you reach out to a crumbling maga and find their walls are still high, don't fight. Disengage and walk away and leave them to the crumbling. They may be more receptive later.

But where you find openings, teach empathy.

It seems that most of what you are saying requires a fairly good line of communication between both sides.

I'm not hearing that those lines are easy to establish and maintain - even between close family members.

More pondering this evening...

Both love their families deeply. Will fight to protect them.
Both love their country. Will fight to protect it.
Both sincerely believe in their religions or lack thereof.
Both fiercely believe in justice.
Both strongly desire and defend freedom.

Both love their families deeply......like dick Cheney with his gay daughter or Elon with his trans child? I remember years ago reading an article about a gay son who was kicked out of his house for being gay. We sat down with our two young kids to tell them we would always accept them. No, they will not protect them. They will throw them to the wolves.

We love America. They love Russia. I guess you are right. We both love our country. I can not argue with that. You habe seen the shirts they wear staging they would rather be Russian than liberal, right?

Yes, their religion is money and they do deeply believe in it. It cannot be god, or they would be protesting leaving babies to be raised without all the support in the world. The pro-life crowd would be against mothers dying due to not being able to get treatment. Every one of them would be screaming about sending innocent people to be tortured in a different country. But, again, you have me. They do love their money, um, religion.

They believe in justice? Really? I mean, I am trying to hold myself back. Talk me how many magats protested and called their reps over J6 being pardoned? How many demanded Trump be jailed Gor his felonies? How many of them howled that rape survivors should have justice and they would not vote for a racist until something was done? How many of thrm.ate filling the streets, demanding everyone sent to El Salvador come back and get due process? How many did not vote for trump because he ran on a platform of retribution and that is not justice? I could go on in this category but would be here all night.

Freedom? So they are holding rallies to say no book banning? They are. Upon arms about colleges being punished for allowing freedom of speech/protestors?

They are not who you are pretending brush are. No!

Open your eyes. Yes, they are motivated by family, country, beliefs, justice and freedom. It is just that they have been conned and also unfortunately many are not too bright and prefer simple wrong solutions to complex realistic solutions.

I am not pretending anything, least of all pretending to understand that sentence.

When faced with all of these questions about what they protest.

Contrary examples, in and of themselves, do not refute an argument. I specifically said that not all of crushed magas will be receptive. I gave specific advice on that point.

For example "We love America, they love Russia" is facile, glib, and not true. A few do love Russia, but the vast majority of Republicans do not love Russia.

You gave us nothing to go forward with. That's okay, but then again, ....

If you "use to be dem", what are you now?

I used to be rem gurl. Then I got divorced from my abusive ex husband. He got control of my email. I could not recover dem gurl from here. So now I used to be rem gurl since I could not get into my original account. I was proud of that name, especially since a now deceased member from here saw one of my writings on my rape and how (sorry, I now have a brain injury and have memory problems with my TBI) a well known conservative made me feel about his thoughts that take victims only speak up to get the attention. The member, William, was an editor and put my writing on the front page of Buzzflash.

I wanted to stay connected to my dem gurl account so I let folks know that is who I was and still am!!!!!

As Gandhi noted, "Intolerance betrays a want of faith in one's cause." And as Camus wrote, "But you and I know that this war will not have any real victors, and that, once it is over, we still have to go on living together forever on the same soil."

As we see in this thread, even among a group one would hope would rely upon rational thought rather than raw emotion, there are those who take pride in saying they "can't forgive." Such people may be helpful in our ability to win elections, for every vote counts. But they are currently incapable of bringing about the peace and stability levels of a healthy, sane society.

Yes, we have more empathy; and also, we and they have different definitions for a lot of the things we all claim to love. I'm not convinced that justice and freedom, for example, mean the same thing to Republicans, or at least to MAGA Republicans as they do to us.

To me, those things mean equal rights for everyone, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion (or lack thereof), sexuality, gender identity, etc., and the freedom for all of us to be who we really are. To MAGAs, "freedom" seems to mean being "free" to live like it's 1955, forcing everyone who's not like them back into the shadows. They seem to regard the very existence of gay or trans gender people to be an encroachment on their "freedom," and fight to deny them full human rights. Even books about LGBT related topics in a school or public library are regarded as an assault on their "freedom" to raise their children without any knowledge of such matters (in the mistaken belief that this will ensure that none of their children will ever identify as anything other than cis gendered and heterosexual). They demand their "freedom" to teach the Bible in public schools and hold public prayer in those schools, and on and on.

They are also very quick to accuse us of "hating this country" because we don't want to let them drag us all back to the 1950s. How can we work with that?

I'm not saying we can't possibly find a way to work together. I hope that is possible. But I see too much evidence that that are a lot of things we don't agree about to believe we can just say, "Hey, we all love freedom, so let's all work together for freedom!" That's not going to work without first making sure we all agree on exactly what "freedom" is and what it looks like.

I could go on for hours giving examples of words we don't define the same way Republicans do, but I don't have the time or the energy (and I'm sure nobody else has the time or energy to read it all if I did). I'm not sure how we can all get on the same page, but that seems like a necessary first step to me,

You are on there right path when you write:

This is a key point you identify.

Because of propaganda and disinformation, many maga believe that "trans" issues are a crisis that has to be addressed, which is to say that they have been told it is much more prevalent than it is. I think actual stats might be something like 12,000 trans people or 12,000 transitions per year, I'm not sure, but certainly not the "epidemic" they think it is, nor is it a disease, nor is it mental illness beyond what is caused by the maga nut cases pressurizing trans people.

Likewise, perhaps there was one incident of a litter box in a classroom to accomodate a furry-identifying child, or perhaps no incident at all. It certainly is not rampant throughout the school system. And if there was, who knows if it was more in jest and fun than being serious.

Further, there is an undercurrent of false information that gives the impression indirectly that being trans might somehow infect other children. That is rather nonsensical, though it is true that the presence of trans or gender-fluid children might increase gender-curiousity. If it does, it soon sorts itself out since true gender identification comes from within.

So when maga believe these things, they might rationally conclude that action needs to be taken and rights reduced. Of course conclusions drawn from false premises are garbage and maybe toxic.

The thing is that the impetus for them to reach their garbage conclusion stems from the same core protection of family instinct we share.

What this means is that, when talking to wobbly crushed magas, it is important to ask them how they reached their conclusion (support tRump because he's anti-trans), i.e. what premises and pieces of information are they operating from. Direct attacks on those premises and misinformation have a big risk of raising walls and hardening perceptions. I think it is best to approach it indirectly, by asking them to show you how the (dis)information. Then you can lead them on a path to questioning the veracity. One useful thing to do is point out how their information does not accord with shared and observed reality.

This is what happens when for example a maga expresses astonishment that the price of the car they wanted to buy has gone up $5,000 due to tariff taxes. There is cognitive dissonance because tRump promised to reduce prices on day one. Work with it.

Also, one can point out that in many cases the maga-tRump approaches are ineffective. For example:


Meet them where their concerns are and acquaint them with reality.

I can see how this approach could be useful with a Trump voter who is disappointed and confused by his actions. Certainly more productive than the "All MAGA/Trump voters/Republicans are irredeemably evil people who want bad things for everyone except those who are just like them!" stance reflected in some of these posts.


I agree.

He's not stupid, but he has been deep in the cult for years. I don't really feel like asking him about it. Last time we discussed trump at a practice he screamed at the rest of us and then ran to his room to cry and pout.

are so much like the King and the Duke in Huckleberry Finn, they are authority figures, not just scammers. When the mob catches on the mob exercises power to tar and feather them. "Don't Look Up" shows the same thing. Human behavior is not always nice or decent and when acting as group it can be horrendous. Most of these people are locked into a mutual, virtual mob of resentment and rage and manipulated like suckers. Because it is social media and Corporate Pravda it is harder to free themselves from a directed cult.

Basic humanity? Look to the sad history- even some pre-history and tell me we are certain to muddle through this cabale intact in body and soul?

We don't have to like them. The goal is to break the spell he has on them.

I come from an evangelical family, and I would NEVER mistake their acting in their self interest as true change. I was burned too many times. That's why I don't interact with my family. I don't trust any of them. I feel the same about the Trumpers. I'm glad they're angry with him, but I won't ever turn my back on them. They need to make amends. That's true contrition--actions speak louder than words.

I think it's the same brain worm - once it takes hold it never leaves. It may lie dormant for awhile but if the opportunity arises, it will become active.

Once someone has shown that they can destroy family/societal relationships when they so please, it is doubtful they can ever be trusted again.

I grew up wanting to be a part of my family, but never, ever feeling comfortable with their views. Their god was always too small--never accepting ANY other viewpoints. MAGA world is the same. Never turn your back on anyone whose god is retributive. They have the same viewpoint and will stab you in the back without a second thought. (Yeah, I know I sound bitter, but it's a learned bitterness--I'm still trying to forgive, but I'll never forget!)

many of them turn to easy and cheap remedies whether it be religion, alcohol or drugs, antisocial behavior, conspiracy theories, etc.
Superstition and the unwillingness to put in some work to evaluate and help themselves is a self-fulfilling prophecy that is hard wiring their brains and making themselves more gullible.

I suspect learning how to cope could go far for many of these people but I also suspect that contemplation and deep self-analysis are things that they have never done or have forgotten how to do.

I can't celebrate America this year and my family, in spite of my multiple, sincere and correct warnings, stuck with the man.

Basically, it said that people who have been conned very often forgive the person who conned them. They realize they had some culpability in it. But they will NEVER forgive the person who keeps reminding them they were conned.

It won't be easy to do. Every fiber of my being wants to scream 'We warned you!!!" The true cultists are too far gone...let them go. But if we can get even 10% back to the light let's do it.

It is a macho thing,... djt knows just how to grease those wheels and tug those strings to keep the alpha male issue front and center.

It is so deeply ingrained in our culture, the excess of which is so detrimental to family, friends, and society in general.

I sure hope and pray so.

Both are highly intelligent and college educated, one with a masters degree. Neither are ugly towards others who disagree with them. So not ugly MAGAs.

Between the two, we have 10 grandkids with another due in June. We love our sons, their wives, and of course our grandkids and are not going to allow ourselves to be estranged.

They had a good example in my husband, masculine, athletic, but pro-feminism and perfectly comfortable with having a feminine and creative side, so that probably has a lot to do with why they aren't hateful in their talking about their beliefs.

We have to win back voters. The cheating is facilitated by close margins, when the margins are wide it is much harder for them to cheat. I emphasize that we need campaign finance reform, single payer health, and a greatly reformed tax system. It might feel good to laugh at their misfortune but we have to keep a long range outlook. The GOP lost so many voters in the 30s and 40s that that party literally had to import almost 300,000 Germans to rebuild their party and get loyal henchmen into government. Hopefully they are finally disgraced enough that we can get things changed for the better, rather than for narrow groups.

Is making the distinction between the person and their actions. "Good" people can do "Bad" things. Telling children they are "Bad" can sometimes cause them to internalize the notion, and act-out as a response. Condemning the action is different from condemning the child. Actions are easier to remedy than personalities. The whole problem with "Woke" is they feel we think they are racists because they do racist acts and talk the racist talk. The fact that they are hurt by this is Telling. Why do they feel guilty about the America of seventy-plus years ago, if they weren't there doing what was done? Why don't they go to church and listen to the homily about "Love thy neighbor" and get on with it. If you love to hate, you hate to love. Can't fix that. I have to love my brother, but I hate my sister-in-law. She's a Q-MAGA Christo-fascist, hateful as-can-be.
Best way forward is to push back respectfully and avoid triggering their insecurities. The world needs them to get a bead and get with the program. So don't hurt their feelings anymore. They might get an insight. It's a Forlorn Hope, but I'll take it if it's on offer.

before they can come in and sit on my furniture.

"cognitive dissonance" that they have embodied in their brains, may erupt after they learn the truth.

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-cognitive-dissonance-2795012

If my Florida contacts are correct, they'd rather be homeless and have no "illegals '.
They think it's funny that the SC is making tRump facilitate the return of the Maryland man.
They have no feelings

Fuck em all. They put us all in this mess. I hope they all go bankrupt and get a terminal disease.

Fuck em all. They put us all in this mess and if a Democrat did 1/100 of the shit that trump has done they would be storming the Capitol. I hope they all go bankrupt, get a terminal disease, and live in regret the rest of their lives!

Also, if you never had any empathy, it means you’re a psychopath so you’re not going to suddenly have it.

I get it, I’m not going to reject a former associate who has rejected their votes. But, I need to see more.

I’m not buying: “ i didn’t know , blah, blah, blah..”

I want them to formulate a thorough understanding of why they did what they did and to change parties,
They also need to donate to good causes that uplift people.

Otherwise, stay cautious.

They may try to distance themselves from this shite show. However, it took years of Republican grooming and people voting for the fear and hate. It started with Reagan.

Yes, I have forgiven people during my life. But, don’t forget because you never know for sure.

So, no. I’m not waiting with open arms. If one invites me for coffee to discuss, I’ll go. And I’ll give them ways they can demonstrate their empathy for others.

This is about whether our nation will remain free or not. The head MAGA is out for retribution and his supporters put him in the Presidency and elected his evil cult members to the legislature. This shit is not going to be easy to stop.
The time for pretending that supporters of Trump are normal is far behind us.

But we have been trying that since 2015. It has not worked. My new approach? We have to beat them pure and simple. I want two options for them. You vote against Republicans or you stay home. The majority of people in 2024 did not vote in the election. We don't need them, we don't need to convert them, we don't need their votes. Trump had it just right He even said that last year I don't need your votes. We don't need to convert trumpers to win. Let them sit in their stuff and let's get the folks who did not vote, to vote. This movement must be stamped out. They can get on board or they can get lost.

What they are feeling is a direct impact on their personal well being.

Whether that is their 401(k) or their groceries or the increasing cost of consumer goods; that is impacting them (…and all of us) in a very direct way.

If this were just impacting “illegals” or the minority and marginalized demographics that have been struggling as they have for decades; their propensity to empathize with these particular groups would be of little concern.

They have much to prove that their regret is not simply rooted in self preservation before I’m willing to extend my own empathy towards their own plight.

Paybacks a bitch baby. Get on board or get the fuck out of here.

They will continue to feed the fire.

was on the receiving end of continued blame and hate. I sure wouldn't budge. Maybe it's just me, but I can dfeel my inner "mule ears" laying back just imagining being on the receiving end of an adamant continuation of rage directed toward me.I think I'd say "f*&^ that" and hunker down in my anger and resentment toward libs.

Hard as it is, the only way I can see deprogramming continuing for some, maybe even a substantial number of Trump voters, is to follow the advice in the article in the OP. NOT giving a free pass, but also not rubbing their face in it.

Even a 10 percent positive change would likely improve life for those who those people touch in their lives.

I disagree entirely. FUCK THESE PEOPLE!

When someone shows you who they are... Fucking believe them. Fuck them.

There is no such thing as redemption...

This God character... he made Hell... according to them... and my guess is, especially for them. If God wants to forgive and coddle those fuckers... let him. If God wants someone to stand there and press the BURN button for eternity. I have nothing better to do.

Sign me up for that.

It is not up to us to handle them with kid gloves, nor to change our behavior for their benefit. It is not on us to tip toe around for fear that they might return to the GOP if we are not nice to them.

No, the GOP is not banking on the left being intolerant of former right-wingers, they are banking on us once again letting them up easy and cleaning up their mess.

We don't need to take care of MAGA regrets and dismay about these events that they enabled. Yes, they'll be banking on us letting them slide and cleaning up the mess--absolutely. At the same time, no need to confront or be rude. I'm going to wait and see if any that I know complain, and I'll just shrug. Sorry, can't help ya. In the rare case that somebody reaches out, really seems to have had a sincere change of heart (maybe an apology?) -- I will listen and tell them I'll give them space to act on it. In other words, show me.

I agree.

And when it stops hurting, they’ll be right back at it.

These are the same folks who:
Fought against civil rights
Fled to the suburbs to avoid desegregation
Cheered the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
Ran around with teabags on their 3 cornered hats and wore Purple Heart bandaids
Voted for Trump 3 times
They are just waiting for the next authoritarian leader to worship, they won’t change

They won't repent, they will regroup and come after us again.

GOP delenda est.

the hardcore MAGA base will persist. They are rigid thinkers who can't imagine anything other than Us vs Them. But some of the barnacles might be dropping off that rotten GOP carcass these days. Barnacles looking for another host.
Anyone who voted for the Donald Shitshow is MAGA. There are no moderates, ye olde "fiscal conservatives." They are all responsible. Anyone who votes for them in the future is, IMO, sociopathic or otherwise demented.

Has removed all Trump flags signs from his property. The one flag he flew used really pull my chain it read well F Joe Biden.
Reason was young kids could read that flag MAGA are just not decent people and never will be.

even the ones directly affected are not blaming him and still support him.

Last edited Mon Apr 14, 2025, 03:27 PM - Edit history (1)

Diehards
Leaners
Easily Influenced by friends/family
Economy voters who took a chance, thinking a businessman would be better

The Leaners and the Easily Influenced are the only ones I think are beginning to rethink.

Will they all be lumped together and be forever hated and ostracized?

After World War I, Germany paid a very heavy price. The Treaty of Versailles forced them to cede a great deal of territory, their industrial region (the Rhineland) was occupied by Allied forces, their military was "permanently" reduced in numbers, and they had to pay high reparations to the Allied Powers. That is now understood to have led to hyperinflation and great economic hardship that caused the social unrest that allowed the Nazi Party to rise and take over. But after World War II, while there was occupation and forced handover of territory (particularly in the first several years), the Marshall Plan was also put in place in 1948 to help them rebuild their economic infrastructure since their country had largely been reduced to rubble. Ultimately that was a major factor in creating prosperity in America (since our manufacturers made and sold most of the goods for a long time) and in preventing the spiral of social unrest that set the stage for the rise of the far right.

It's smart to be cautious, but also wise to realize that not every Trump voter is the same, and that some actually are beginning to have genuine second thoughts. Do we help them journey towards out of the propaganda and into reality, or do we make ourselves so hateful that they'd rather cling to Trumpers because at least they will be accepted there?