"kitchen table" issues. They surely didn't seem out of touch. What is out of touch is perception that many working people have of the Democratic party.

To my (somewhat biased) recollection, the Republicans have never done one thing to address economic issues for working people yet have branded themselves, with some success, as the "party for working people." Give me a fucking break. They are anti-union, anti-minimum wage increase, anti-workplace safety and occupational health, anti-ACA and healthcare in general, and pro-millionaire and billionaire and pro-abuse of monopolistic power.

It is true that the Dems need to message better on these issues and it is also true that many working people have voted against their own interests when voting for Republicans.

I absolutely agree.

And a lot of the "working class" votes for HATE over HELP.

…the root of our problem with large swaths of the population is that many have come to the conclusion that government cannot or will not (thanks, Third Way!) make any tangible improvement in their lives. And, since, in their minds, they’re screwed either way, they choose to vote on their “values”: primarily “God, guns, and guts,” plus a return to a fictional “good old days.” The big factor in getting many to stop voting against their own interests is for Democrats to convince them that positive change for them is possible and our party will bring it – which is why people like Bernie and AOC resonate with such voters while “pragmatic progressives” don’t.

that these workers tend to care about over issues that actually help them. The GOP has done nothing for them since the 1970s. Yet many voted this year over immigration, transgender, and racism issues that had little to do with inflation, job stagnation, wage stagnation, and overall class warfare. They voted for the billionaire class over themselves. It sounds insane. But propaganda clearly works.

I don't see how Democrats "win" these voters over, when they seem to care about essentially imaginary issues.

They voted for HATE over HELP

those idiots NEVER seem to question the party that actually CAUSES most of their misery

think tank — as a Democratic Party influencer — is with the average American, including many if not most Democrats. I fully agree with it. That’s in no way, manner or shape implying that the Republican Party doesn’t deserve far greater blame than Democrats for wage stagnation and the relative demise of the middle class over the psst several or more decades.

are less aware of the basis for the issue and more aware of the social media complaint.
We have become a quick decision society, but if your background on an issue is shallow, so often are your decisions.

They also do not understand tariffs. The ones who are not xenophobic will return to the Dem corner once they realize Trump cannot lower prices and his tariffs are actually increasing them. There is no way to win over the xenophobic ones.

I am, not in any way discounting the fact that most of Trump's voters are xenophobes and misogynists -- no question about that. But there are a considerable (maybe enough to throw the election Trump's way?) number of young voters in particular who voted for Trump because they are struggling financially, can't currently see their way to getting ahead, and concerned about how our economy isn't working for them. There are also plenty of people who did not vote for the same reason -- they've given up.

We need to inspire people to vote for us, including the people who are concerned about the economy. We haven't done that well for 40 or more years now.

Name me one time when Democrats did any of this:

I was sure it was Sanders.
-Third way
-Identity politics
-Working class, ie white males
-etc, etc, etc.

hurt or weren't given enough attention I'm afraid I must nominate them for the prestigious Darwin Award. By the way, I'm a working class voter and I had no problem voting for democracy. I never felt slighted nor ignored.

I see and have always seen the Democratic Party as supporting the working class through unions. But I wonder if “working class” no longer includes union members and refers to a less educated, even anti-union, group. Just thinking out loud.

Does anyone have any insight into the “working class” versus union discussion and how it would impact the Democratic Party?

Here in Michigan, it's slightly better at around 13.5%. The vast majority of people are not in unions.

We are mocked and ridiculed over socialism. Not “third way” and their other rabbit holes.

This change happened in 2005. Look at the "right track/wrong track" numbers. This is all about economic unfairness. You can see exactly when everything changed in 2005. That happened to be the time that W Bush was trying to kill Social Security and hand it to Wall Street. America has been continuously pissed off since then.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1669/general-mood-country.aspx

Dems have been squawking about everything BUT the economic fairness issues for 20 years.

And what they don't really mention here is that Trump (bizarrely) has been running on the rhetoric of economic populism (while acting 100% on behalf of the 0.1%). Trump has been screaming about China. Trump has been saying only he can run America like a great business. Trump has been saying it is those "illegals" who took your jobs. And so on.

We have lost 20 years, and unfortunately the Party is now dominated by people who think our strong suits are something completely different.

We must change. There is no future with the track we have been on for generations. The oligarchs have been consolidating power for 70 years now, with practically no resistance from Dems. Americans are really pissed off about this. Trump and Musk are perfect poster boys for the economic issues. They are HANDING us this issue. We must be smart enough to take it and run with it.

We all want things like climate progress, LGBT rights, and reproductive rights, but we lose ALL OF THOSE THINGS if we can't win elections. The way to return to power is to have a hard-hitting progressive economic agenda that is nothing short of "eat the rich".

Today, after 70 years of post-war consolidation, the rich have returned to exactly the same concentration of wealth that they had at the culmination of the "roaring 20s", which ended up with the stock market crash of 1929, followed by two decades of The Great Depression. We must jump on this now with everything we've got.

I heard PLENTY from Dems - and yes, Bernie, about the shitshow "trickle down economics" caused, and not a PEEP from repukes.

What you are missing, I believe, is any SOLUTIONS proposed by Dems, other than Bernie (who isn't a Dem).

Yes, some Dems have mentioned trickle down along the way, but what is their plan?

Trump has a plan -- a terrible plan -- but a very detailed plan nonetheless -- almost 1000 pages as P2025. And a terrible plan beats no plan every day of the week.

Where is our P2025 (or P2027 or P2029) that details how we roll back the power of these oligarchs and restore economic fairness to the average American. I haven't seen it. Have you?

P2025 is FASCISM

and Trump DENIED ASSOCIATION WITH P2025

That was the deal. The Heritage people would keep him out of prison, but he had to sign on 100% to the P2025 plan.

Nonetheless, it was very effective. They won the election because they presented ideas, just as Gingrich won a blowout when he put up the Contract with America.

A lousy set of ideas beats no ideas every day of the week. Dems have not presented any bold, far-reaching ideas since JFK with the Apollo mission and LBJ with the Great Society.

We'd better figure out how to present a very clear set of messages addressing the economic fairness issues that Americans are so pissed about or else we are going to keep on losing.

BECAUSE HE IS A FASCIST FUCK AND THE GREEDY OLD PIG PARTY GOOSE STEPS TO HIM

DEMOCRATS work for WE THE PEOPLE, we don't GOOSE STEP so it's harder - it's not as easy when the mainstream media and the Supreme court have become EXTENSIONS of the GOP.

Honestly, I think it will take a big collapse for the "working class" to wake up to the fact REPUKES DO NOT FUCKING CARE ABOUT THEM. *AT ALL*

Because NOTHING ELSE has worked.

we have gone for generations without clearly articulating what Dems stand for. There never was any question when FDR was President, and really up through Carter. But for 40 years, we have had a tendency to "triangulate" and talk over the heads of the public rather than to just be very clear about what we believe in.

There has been a belief that the "open tent" was a huge advantage, and maybe it was for a time. But we are at the point now that we are losing the young generation, losing many Latinx voters, losing too many black men. IMHO this is mostly because we refuse to address the issues that most anger the public, and those are mostly economic fairness issues. People see Dems as lacking conviction and always running away from a fight. We tell ourselves that is because "somebody has to be the adult in the room", but the public sees that as feckless and weak. And when I say "the public", I'm talking about the 25% of the voting population that used to identify as Dem and now identify as Independent.

We have to win them back. They already agree with us on issues. That's not the problem. The problem is they don't believe we will FIGHT FOR those issues. So I welcome what Booker did. It showed the kind of passion and intensity we need to se from EVERY Dem.

it is simply easier to stoke HATE AND FEAR than it is to appeal to HOPE AND HEALING

I'M SICK of being told I need to "understand" those voters - well, they have DUG THEIR OWN GRAVE, let's see how it works out for them

*OVER AND OUT*

The only place his approval was above water was DEI. The majority of white voters continued their racist voting. Fix the problems in your community and have the majority of white voters vote for what is best for this country and the world. They voted for a racist demagogue, it’s time they grew up and stopped hating. The Democratic Party should not cater to them.

When nearly 30% of young black men chose to vote for Trump, *WE* have a problem.

https://apnews.com/article/young-black-latino-men-trump-economy-jobs-9184ca85b1651f06fd555ab2df7982b5

This article attributes that to the economic issues they feel the Dems did not address in a convincing way. I think that is true. And the irony is that the Biden administration, after recovering from the COVID mess, produced the strongest economy in decades. I can't say whether or not this economic strength served young black men well. I haven't seen much good analysis on that. But there is an old axiom among salespeople, "Perception is reality". That is to say, if 30% of young black men had the perception that the economy was not working for them, THAT is their reality, like it or not.

What lessons did we learn from the 2024 election?

The majority of White Americans have not voted for a democrat since LBJ. This is the problem. 64% of white men voted for a convicted felon, who hasn’t done anything to help this nation. I have lived through the kkk, moral majority, tea party and now MAGA. None of this is about economics. They have consistently voted against their best interests and the interests of the nation. why? One group of people learned nothing.

What I meant is that they are like a canary in the coal mine. Whether the number is 30% or 20% doesn't much matter. When we can't convince young black men that it is better to support Democrats than a guy who has been the biggest racist in American politics since George Wallace, WE have a problem.

And even a few black folks can be conned into voting against their interests like the people who were angry about Palestine and a large group of Hispanics from different countries bought the bullshit. But no group has consistently voted for republicans as white Americans and the only reasons some are feeling remorse is it’s hurting them also. If we can get them to vote to improve our country and give a damn about something other than their supposed grievances, maybe we can turn this ship around.

I realize that can backfire if taken to extremes, but we have been nowhere near those extremes. Hell, most Dems can't even say that tariffs are taxes on everything you need to buy. Some Dems have trouble saying that most of these executive orders are blatantly illegal.

Nothing is gained by mincing words. It just makes us seem weak and feckless.

We are seeing people starting to be much more direct. AOC and Bernie have been telling it like it is and they are drawing crowds of 20-40,000 everywhere they go. The Booker marathon was very important because he did keep it real.

Part of plain take -- even "fighting words" -- is a warning to Republicans that we won;t let them get away with lies for fear of hurting Republican feelings. Americans want us to fight, not be excessively polite.

I wouldn't try to speak for anybody else, certainly not young black men, but I suspect they are as persuaded by people with fire in the belly as anybody else.

Because a lot of folks are starting to feel the pain, but must we go through this every four years because we have short memories . People don’t pay attention until we are in the middle of a disaster. There is one group who gets it right and they vote for everyone to have a better life. I think the majority of Americans have been raised on myths, we can fund our own healthcare we don’t need Obamacare, we won ww 2, poor people are lazy and they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and America is the greatest country in the world. Maybe now we will get a dose of reality. I doubt it ,myths are more comfortable.

Everybody, please find a protest in your area and be there if at all possible.

and suggest Dem’s emulate a liar and a cheat like Trump.

I didn't ask anybody to praise Trump. I simply pointed out that you can't win in politics without bold ideas. Trump -- or more accurately, the Heritage people -- had very bold ideas, and they sold them. They were able to sell them because Dems simply are not addressing the economic concerns that have Americans so pissed. A lousy idea beats no idea every day of the week.

Unemployment down, incomes up, declines in poverty, etc. Democrats are addressing the economic concerns of Americans and trying to fix them, not just yelling populist slogans. There is a thing called Congress where legislation is decided on and Democrats need large majorities to pass their agenda like higher minimum wage, higher taxes on corporations and the wealthy, campaign finance reform, environmental protections, infrastructure, student debt relief, consumer protections, universal health care and so on. It is easy to find out about Democratic policies by listening to them or looking it up.

Union membership reached its peak in 1955 and declined steadily after that. Democrats fault? No. Economic equality was at its highest during the '60s when the white working class began leaving the Democratic Party. Because of economic anxiety and '90s trade deals? Obviously not. Was it Democrats' fault the global economy changed, global trade increased, automation replaced workers, the U.S. economy shifted from manufacturing to service and tech in the '70s? No.

People vote for Trump/Republicans because of culture wars/immigration. They do not have "bold ideas" that they sell. They sell racism anger and fear of Them vs Us.

People are pissed. You don't seem to understand that, and I can't help you.

The fact that Dems do objectively better on average means very little when the other guys are able to make bold claims about what they will do for people. Of course they lie. But the reason they can get away with that is because we don't sell the true story nearly well enough. Biden had fewer press conferences than any modern President. Harris gave these economic fairness issues only about 20% of her bandwidth during the campaign. Dems, in general, seem to think that the public will figure out the truth on their own.

It doesn't work that way, especially in a world with Fox and 100 other RW megaphones blaring all the time. We have to get out and sell our accomplishments. And that would be a lot easier if Dems would agree on a consistent set of messages, and then work hard to get those messages out.

We are now in a world where the public is open to a very blunt message: "Eat the rich", but find me a Dem who can say anything even half as blunt as that. Find me a Dem who will say, "the billionaire class are freeloaders". Find me a Dem (other than Bernie or AOC) who will say "If the billionaires pay their fair share, we can have free college tuition for any student with the aptitude and commitment, affordable health care for 100% of the population, and the Social Security system guaranteed solvent into the 22nd century."

You can't, because most Dems just can't get bold statements to cross their lips.

corporations that don't pay their fair share. Where's the "neoliberal" insult? That used to be required to bash Democrats.

Makes it hard to prove something that isn't true when Hillary (whose most frequently used word in her speeches as a presidential candidate was "jobs" -- oh, another inconvenient fact!) says "Trumped-up trickle-down economics" and Biden, "trickle-down economics has never worked," and Kamala Harris, "Trickle-down economics benefited big corporations and the wealthiest of Americans ... " because Democrats are not the same as Republicans no matter how much one squeezes one's eyes, wishes very very very hard, taps one's ruby slippers together and repeats things that aren't true about Democrats.

Like it or not, P2025 is a plan. It is a terrible plan, but a terrible plan beats no plan any day of the week. What is the Democratic plan?

It is different for every Democrat you ask. It isn't a party. It is a loose association of free agents. That just does not work. We need a leader with the gravitas to put together a plan and line up broad support for it.

And it needs to be tangible. Just mentioning a random string of things we like is not a plan.

It's why they vote against Democrats. Democrats know this, it's why they vote for Democrats. Anyone who doesn't has another agenda or believes anything anti-Democratic they hear without bothering to listen to do a few minutes research.

"I want to be a billionaire" is an aspiration.

"I will work with Billionaires and autocrats all over the world to acquire and build disinformation networks in order to undermine confidence if Democratic governments" is a plan.

See the difference? People are sick of platitudes and aspirations. They want actionable plans.

You ignore what Democrats have done in the last 4 year to create new good paying jobs and improve the lives of working people to come spout platitudes about how great the Heritage Foundation is for coming up with buzzwords and policies that HURT everyone but Trump’s rich friends.

And isn't that the point? It isn't good enough to write the best legislation ever conceived by man, even if it does great things. You have to SELL it. For every hour spent negotiating and whipping legislation, there should be 1000 hours selling it to the public.

Maybe a review of recent political history will add some weight to your "arguments".

Dems are pro-union, pro-middle class, and pro-economic equality, and if you had been paying attention to the Biden administration achievements and the plans laid out by the Harris/Walz campaign you’d know that.

Instead you seem to have bought into the false anti-Democrat cliches spouting by the pundit and ‘influencer’ on twitter.

JFC

it's EASY for repukes to manipulate those fucking idiots, they believe ANYTHING the dittomasters tell them, especially if it's based on IGNORANCE AND FEAR......it's MUCH HARDER for Democrats

Can we please give the guy a little credit?

If the world hadn't decided he was too old, we might be in his second term.

Evidently there's some law against actually listening to Democrats or looking at the party platform when a person needs to pin up a gross caricature of Democrats and throw darts at it.

Here we are again at the corner of Gaslight and Bullshit streets.

For me it goes back to Reagan, 45 years. But then I also know that the aristocrats chafed at and began plotting against FDRs New Deal 90 years ago, and then there was the John Birch Society in the early 50s — 80 years ago.

The long game — what we’ve seen since Reagan — grew out of those embers. Heck, maybe the concept, long game goals/objectives, was even formulated back then. This didn’t happen overnight.

But you already know all that. Thanks again.

An advantage of being an old fart is that I've seen much of this "long game" with my own eyes. And I can certainly read about the parts of American history I did not personally experience.

Thom Hartmann has written extensively about some of the long cycles in politics -- on the scale of 80 years. It seems the underlying factor is that 80 years is long enough for almost everybody with first-hand knowledge to be dead. So here we are with Nazis again, and a lot of people, even some on our side, seem to not understand the significance of this.

NAFTA and globalization was bad for the USA. Perot was right on that.

But it seems to me, the GOP has been pushing the jargon and identity politics, not the Democrats.

Third Way seems to be sitting on the fence. Want the Dems to go after corporate corruption , but not the rich guys who own and benefit from it. Someone has to pay for the middle class tax cuts. Dems have just been honest enough to say it out loud.

I feel like they keep forgetting brown people have jobs.

“Working class” my ass. Oldest dog whistle in the racism book.

Third Way? Jesus Christ . . . .

that’s really the meat of the article.

exception it doesn’t mention Citizens United. I do happen to agree with you about Citizens United and predatory capitalism. I believe the author of the Op Ed probably would as well.

if you ask me. Everything trump and Republicans have been running on for decades has all been lies. They grab hold of what people want to hear and promise reasonable mostly Democratic ideas and when in power it goes out the window faster than trump can tell a lie. The whole Republican party is based on lies. Period

Somehow, many here seem to get hung ip on that.

says in much nicer words.

It's Third Way...a Demcratic Party faction that needs to be kicked to the curb.

nothing tangible

and, I think, the idea that they have any leverage at all in the Democratic (our by the way) Party.

Now, embracing real progressive is the way to go: unions, universal health care, a living wage, TAX THE SHIT OUT of BILLIONAIRES, stop taking corporate money, etc.

albeit with nicer words and maybe not in a smashmouth, direct fashion.

BTW, it’s unclear to me from your post, but just in case, the Op Ed is highly critical and struck me as cynical about 3rd Way. The author would probably agree with you 100%.

This is how you keep people like Paul LePage from destroying your State,

The issue was brought up of "blue collar workers" leaving the Democratic Party because of support for Civil Rights for Black People.

"Blue collar workers" were upset that Democrats were helping Black People.
When "blue collar" or "working class" is used, they mean racist white folks.

By waking them up to how things like racism, xenophobia, & transphobia serve the elites. What always happens with class-based rhetoric is forgetting the importance of addressing the tools the masters use to divide us. If we don’t do that, the oligarchs will always win. It’s why I knew Bernie would fail with his approach.

Its a good read if you didn’t.

that the Dems will look good no matter what!

And try too much to appeal to the educated?

by not vilifying the rich or demonizing corporations. Just more head up their ass "the democrats need to do this." Who are these folks, and why do they make any more sense than anyone else?

Things are not going well for Trump/Must et al. We were all shocked by the election, but it's time to stop searching for explanations that make no more sense than anyone else's explanations.

I'm kind of amazed at the knee jerk reaction to the words "Third Way", but I do understand it. When I saw Third Way mentioned I immediately put my filters up -- but reading on, it was clear top me that the article, the Op Ed, is entirely critical of Third Way. I thought it was a good article. It basically says what a lot of folks berating the article in posts here are saying.

Frankly, it's mind-boggling, and at the same time fascinating. The reaction is almost like that from a red flag waved in front of a bull.

Working people should, as the only time they're really mentioned in public is at election time. Been that way since Pruneface Reagan's first term.

The rest of the time since, Main Street's not needed. Pols go where the real money is: Wall Street.

I think some folks who just read the excerpt are a little confused. The article is a thoughtful critique of the current Third Way advice to Democrats. The Third Way "memo" linked by the article is downright shocking.

things past and near past from Social Security to the job-creating infrastructure bill vs. what the GOP has failed to do . . . ever. There's no comparison, but a Republican who voted against infrastructure will have a photo op in front of a bridge under construction and those who don't pay as close attention as we do believe the Republican did it.

Last Saturday I flipped on the car radio and heard two guys talking rapidly back and forth, sort of loud. Their voices were a little gravely, their vocabularies were "plain" (definitely not academic), their "accents" were working class (whatever that means... not academic, anyway.) In other words, they sounded like two guys on a Saturday sports call in show.

Turns out it was NPR and they were talking about the Signal fiasco, voicing expected common sense opinions.

I was sort of glad to hear this. But sobered at how surprising it was.

I guess the 75 million votes that Kamala Harris received were not working class voters, let me guess why, they were not white. The results showed that 9 out of 10 black women supported Kamala, 8 out of 10 black men voted for Kamala, the only group of people that understood the FREAKING danger the ORANGE MAN posed to the country.

The headline line should read (Democrats Still Misunderstand RACIST WHITE PEOPLE)

What about me? Almost nothing D did every helped me and some harmed me a lot. But I still voted for them and against fascism.

Funny how all of these “economic anxiety” dems abandoning working class people never addresses the fact that a vast majority of Black people in this country are working class and a vast majority of that group still don’t vote Republican.

...that votes for Colonel Sanders.

stands for equal rights while the Republican Party has and does not; and that not all people who either didn't vote or, if they did, voted for Trump because they are prejudiced. I know some young folks who voted for Trump because they are struggling financially and were focused on how our economy works -- or rather doesn't work -- for them.

But, absolutely, you make a legitimate point.

Please explain. Edit: NVM, found it on Urban Dictionary.

Simple as that. Either you're for depravity and dictatorship OR you're for decency and democracy. Period. End . . . of . . . story.

Since Trump was christened by Russia to infiltrate the US political system, this has never been about traditional politics. It's been about the most fundamental issues of human existence: good vs. evil. And Trump's MAGA cult has chosen evil, over and over and over again, EVEN AFTER Trump tried to overthrow the US government be leading a violent attack against the US Capitol and saying his VP deserved to be hanged because he followed the Constitution, EVEN AFTER Trump stole thousands of pages of confidential and top secret documents and lied about, EVEN AFTER the Jan. 6 hearings in which many of his top admin officials swore under oath to his foolishness and treachery, EVEN AFTER Trump was found guilty of 34 counts of fraud. And it goes on and on and on and on and on . . .

Don't tell me, or any other decent human being, that this has ever been a political issue, that this has ever been about anything but Trump sanctifying ignorance, glorifying name-calling, modeling racism and sexism and sexual perversion. Trump made all the closet perverts feel like they had found their savior, and so they joined the MAGA cult.

It's an evil cult of racist thugs vs. decent human beings.

I grew up in a working class family. I know the difference between right and wrong, and that's all I've needed to know since Trump fell onto the scene. Voters had the most clear-cut choice for president in the history of the United States last November, and that choice had NOTHING to do with politics. You could vote for a convicted criminal, a pathological liar, a failed businessman who has gone bankrupt six times, a religious hypocrite, a racist, a sexist, an immature 80-year-old name-calling bully who publicly mocked a disabled reporter on national TV, an egomaniac who sides with fellow tyrants over his own country and its democratic allies OR you could vote for imperfect but decent human beings with proven intelligence, empathy, respect for the rule of law and the Constitution, respect for America's role in the world, and respect for our allies.

Good vs. Evil. And Evil won. That's the truth. That's what's happening. This is a moral and ethical crisis, not a political one, so there is no political solution.

maybe we can see it for what it is. More "soul searching" democrat bashing b.s. that shifts the blame FROM an uneducated, and often willfully BAMBOOZLED Trump voting electorate...

who oddly enough, all of a sudden don't seem to give a flying fk about all that "economy and the price of eggs" bs they CLAIMED to be concerned about.

And the yelling populist speeches of Both Sides BS, the Democrats-are-corrupted-by-billionaires-and-oligarchs BS, and all the other anti-Democratic BS. Come on, man.