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I never want to hear these words from anyone ever again. (Original Post) Ray Bruns Jan 10 OP
Yes it is a total lie. We were brainwashed into believing so much bullshit. Irish_Dem Jan 10 #1
George Carlin.........perfect DENVERPOPS Jan 10 #24
He was way ahead of the curve. We all laughed at the time. Irish_Dem Jan 10 #38
That's chilling how Roc2020 Jan 11 #72
All men (+women) are created equal.... magicarpet Jan 11 #54
Ha ha. Women are still second class citizens. Irish_Dem Jan 11 #60
Yep. Depressing, isn't it. Diamond_Dog Jan 11 #76
Depressing and disgusting. Irish_Dem Jan 11 #77
Completely!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 11 #67
"No one is above the law." nt eppur_se_muova Jan 10 #2
Which we now know is complete Different Drummer Jan 10 #14
Well, we do know of one person who is somehow able to make sure HE is above the law. calimary Jan 11 #46
How about DENVERPOPS Jan 10 #21
Every person gets one vote, they just don't all count as much. nt Shermann Jan 11 #66
Just like in Russia DENVERPOPS Jan 11 #71
Did you believe in it before this day? WhiskeyGrinder Jan 10 #3
I did when I was young. Starry eyed fourteen year old in high school. Ray Bruns Jan 10 #5
I complained to my mother about having to recite the pledge daily at school. cyndensco Jan 11 #49
I remember DENVERPOPS Jan 11 #58
I used to misbehave during the pledge in elementary school. Lucky Luciano Jan 11 #59
Blatantly false advertising that should be removed from the Supreme Whorehouse dalton99a Jan 10 #4
Too bad for you. dchill Jan 10 #6
Used to say that fucking shit every week at Boy Scouts. Had no idea it was a total crock of shit. SoFlaBro Jan 10 #7
I stopped standing in high school and my children were taught not to stand. Keepthesoulalive Jan 10 #12
My brother refused to do it pretty early on Meowmee Jan 11 #51
Small town police radio scanners you hear important names that never that never get to court. IA8IT Jan 10 #8
Here's another one: Stargleamer Jan 10 #9
And "the US is a nation of laws"... Bettie Jan 10 #13
... Different Drummer Jan 10 #16
Yup.. please stop saying that.... 🤦🏻‍♀️ Most of us knew it was never true Meowmee Jan 11 #52
The whole pledge can be banned LakeArenal Jan 10 #10
1954 niyad Jan 10 #30
During Eisenhower to distinguish us from the "godless" communists state of stupid Jan 10 #31
With a big push from the bunch of dress-up clowns, the Knights of Columbus. NT BobsYourUncle Jan 11 #48
Ain't that the truth DaBronx Jan 10 #11
It is my sincere hope BigMin28 Jan 11 #56
Yep DaBronx Jan 12 #78
yeah. barbtries Jan 10 #15
K & R Emile Jan 10 #17
Likewise about the US being a shinning beacon of democracy. drray23 Jan 10 #18
Nope, of course, when did they ever really ring true? Magoo48 Jan 10 #19
"Don't do the crime if you cant do the time" bsiebs Jan 10 #20
That depends on how much money and influence you have state of stupid Jan 10 #32
Well, in spite of the fact that "liberty and justice for all" wnylib Jan 10 #22
Just change the last word....... lastlib Jan 10 #23
Perfect 😹 Just add Life to it as well Meowmee Jan 11 #53
I get nauseous when I hear the word liberty it is such bs word that the right wingers throw out kimbutgar Jan 10 #25
You still have the liberty to fight for everything you say is lost. You still have liberty. If you say you don't, ancianita Jan 10 #27
But what happens when "we the people " are annihilated by his MAGAloons that he'll send out to go after kimbutgar Jan 10 #29
Don't make up hypotheticals to continue your fear habit. Fear kills the soul and hardens hearts and minds. ancianita Jan 10 #39
Proclaim what you want. But you can't love democracy, rule of law, liberty and justice for all ONLY WHEN YOU WIN. ancianita Jan 10 #26
That seems like some very convoluted logic. Nt lostnfound Jan 10 #43
How so? ancianita Jan 10 #44
The OP writes of disillusionment. To be dis-illusioned is to free oneself from an illusion lostnfound Jan 11 #74
The OP writes "I never want to hear..." "Disillusionment" is solely your interpretation, and thanks for your thoughts. ancianita Jan 11 #75
Fair points, but on the other hand, pinning one's hope for "democracy" on the U.S. may be antiquated idea lostnfound Jan 14 #79
The same people who make a mockery of the Rule of Law want to make kids pray and read the bible in school. sop Jan 10 #28
I do. pandr32 Jan 10 #33
And "no man is above the law." What a load of bullshit. Comfortably_Numb Jan 10 #34
With Liberty and Justice for Some Little Frieda Jan 10 #35
The Rule of Law is indeed dead. -misanthroptimist Jan 10 #36
there's no justice, it's just us Celerity Jan 10 #37
and I stopped singing the national anthem many years ago.. Permanut Jan 10 #40
You are made blind to soo many things as someone who grows up in America... DSandra Jan 10 #41
As long as we're tossing out antiquated American slogans... Xavier Breath Jan 10 #42
Certainly bdamomma Jan 10 #45
I thought you were going to say "Felon Trump." stollen Jan 11 #47
I keep saying "with liberty and justice for all". regardless of the rest of the world and DU. Tetrachloride Jan 11 #50
Right on!! Ferrets are Cool Jan 11 #55
It is an ideal to work toward dlk Jan 11 #57
The phrase "law and order" can also go fuck itself . . . hatrack Jan 11 #61
"Patriot" Seinan Sensei Jan 11 #62
I'd be happy if we could permanently and officially omit "Under God" * Oopsie Daisy Jan 11 #63
I quit saying the pledge of allegiance long ago IzzaNuDay Jan 11 #64
i actually chuckled when i read "and justice for all" nt orleans Jan 11 #65
Well, that's one approach. I'd rather scream them at the top of my lungs at the end as an act of shaming and defiance. KatjeD Jan 11 #68
Replace with "the pursuit of liberty and justice for all." HereForTheParty Jan 11 #69
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State...." Doc_Technical Jan 11 #70
Haven't been able to say those words since Ford pardoned Nixon Attilatheblond Jan 11 #73

DENVERPOPS

(11,581 posts)
24. George Carlin.........perfect
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 03:44 PM
Jan 10

May he rest in peace, having tried to tell us all the way things really are:

George Carlin, 100% dead on, with this rant years ago, describing the future...............

&t=57s

Roc2020

(1,720 posts)
72. That's chilling how
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 02:28 PM
Jan 11

accurate he was. The country is really in crisis never experienced before. I'm really fascinated curious and very watchful how Americans will respond or react.

Irish_Dem

(67,113 posts)
60. Ha ha. Women are still second class citizens.
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 11:15 AM
Jan 11

With the GOP making it a crime to treat dying women, we are now lower than American livestock and pets.
People are allowed to treat dying pets and farm animals.

Irish_Dem

(67,113 posts)
77. Depressing and disgusting.
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 07:33 PM
Jan 11

My Dad was US career military and he did not fly combat in three wars so his daughter and granddaughters
would be treated worse than gd barnyard animals.

calimary

(85,672 posts)
46. Well, we do know of one person who is somehow able to make sure HE is above the law.
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 12:03 AM
Jan 11

That fucking orange-faced, forked-tongued BASTARD.

DENVERPOPS

(11,581 posts)
71. Just like in Russia
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 02:04 PM
Jan 11

Like one of Hitler's henchmen once said, we don't care about the votes, we only care about who is counting them........

Ray Bruns

(5,094 posts)
5. I did when I was young. Starry eyed fourteen year old in high school.
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 02:38 PM
Jan 10

Did a lot of growing up since then.

cyndensco

(1,743 posts)
49. I complained to my mother about having to recite the pledge daily at school.
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 10:09 AM
Jan 11

She told me if I chose not to say it she would support me. In her opinion, the last line made the whole thing invalid.

I was in elementary school.

DENVERPOPS

(11,581 posts)
58. I remember
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 11:03 AM
Jan 11

when all of a sudden in the 50's they ADDED the phrase, UNDER GOD.............

Lucky Luciano

(11,597 posts)
59. I used to misbehave during the pledge in elementary school.
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 11:12 AM
Jan 11

Last edited Sat Jan 11, 2025, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)

I would make childishly funny word changes or burp or not say it at all. As a 7 year old or so I somehow knew it did not feel right to just mindlessly do it. Nobody ever told me to be that way…but the school psychologist got involved because I wouldn’t comply!

dalton99a

(87,702 posts)
4. Blatantly false advertising that should be removed from the Supreme Whorehouse
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 02:36 PM
Jan 10

"Equal Justice Under Law" my ass


SoFlaBro

(3,424 posts)
7. Used to say that fucking shit every week at Boy Scouts. Had no idea it was a total crock of shit.
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 02:46 PM
Jan 10

Keepthesoulalive

(1,131 posts)
12. I stopped standing in high school and my children were taught not to stand.
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 03:07 PM
Jan 10

We had to have a conversation with some of the teachers but they got my point.

Meowmee

(8,200 posts)
51. My brother refused to do it pretty early on
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 10:19 AM
Jan 11

and they were furious but they could not force him to... I just did it because it had no real meaning to me then anyway

IA8IT

(6,111 posts)
8. Small town police radio scanners you hear important names that never that never get to court.
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 02:46 PM
Jan 10

Justice is infinitely adjustable

BigMin28

(1,642 posts)
56. It is my sincere hope
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 10:36 AM
Jan 11

that Garland is haunted by what is about to become of his precious DOJ. What he was so worried about protecting is about to be turned into a organized crime ring. He protected nothing.

barbtries

(30,279 posts)
15. yeah.
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 03:10 PM
Jan 10

it's aspirational. but i have no desire to recite the pledge of allegiance. i don't swell with pride when i hear the national anthem. i used to. I remember walking down the street and thinking how lucky I was to have been born in the USA.

republicans turned it into a shithole country. If I had the means and my family was with me, I would leave.

As it is I will be here and I will be a part of The Opposition, and I will resist and i will not change, or shut up about it.

drray23

(8,173 posts)
18. Likewise about the US being a shinning beacon of democracy.
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 03:24 PM
Jan 10

Loads of nonsense. We have zero credibility about going around wagging our finger at other countries for not being democracies.

wnylib

(25,211 posts)
22. Well, in spite of the fact that "liberty and justice for all"
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 03:37 PM
Jan 10

has never been fully lived up to, I refuse to drop those words as a value to promote, despite corrupt courts and the power of oligarchs.

If those words are ever to have meaning as a reality, it will happen only when enough people are committed to those words to make them happen.

As a retired person, I am not exposed to settings where the pledge is recited. I do not feel a need or desire to recite the pledge and I take exception to other parts of it as well.

But I can and do feel committed to the goal of "liberty and justice for all."

lastlib

(25,628 posts)
23. Just change the last word.......
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 03:38 PM
Jan 10

"...liberty and justice for the rich......"

"...one nation under tRump.... "

kimbutgar

(24,655 posts)
25. I get nauseous when I hear the word liberty it is such bs word that the right wingers throw out
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 03:45 PM
Jan 10

While taking away voting rights, woman’s rights, LGBTQ rights. Where’s our liberty to have these freedoms?

ancianita

(40,214 posts)
27. You still have the liberty to fight for everything you say is lost. You still have liberty. If you say you don't,
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 03:50 PM
Jan 10

you've abandoned all agency still left to every single one of We The People.

kimbutgar

(24,655 posts)
29. But what happens when "we the people " are annihilated by his MAGAloons that he'll send out to go after
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 03:53 PM
Jan 10

Us and he’ll promise them immunity.

Remember Hitler 2.0 has total immunity in carrying out presidential duties. And who’s to say he won’t use it to go after his enemies in states that didn’t vote for him?

ancianita

(40,214 posts)
39. Don't make up hypotheticals to continue your fear habit. Fear kills the soul and hardens hearts and minds.
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 04:59 PM
Jan 10

Why do you think "when "we the people " are annihilated" or "who's to say" when it didn't happen the first shot he took. Why do you think he's so powerful, or his "magaloons" are in such great numbers. They're not.
Biden has time and time again told you that "America is an idea." If you think an idea can die in the next four years, if you think that millions of your American brothers and sisters won't fight for their children's freedom and futures, think again.

It's a big country. Democracy has millions more allies than the 23% who voted for the Felon.

https://thefederalnewswire.com/stories/665892188-litigation-coalition-forming-to-confront-trump-administration-policies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Alliance

https://www.propublica.org/topics/trump-administration

https://breakingnewsusa.com



Do NOT give in to your fear. Do not let your fear drive your imagination. Try not to post fear.
Take heart. Know that millions of all of us are together in this righteous fight for our descendants' future.



ancianita

(40,214 posts)
26. Proclaim what you want. But you can't love democracy, rule of law, liberty and justice for all ONLY WHEN YOU WIN.
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 03:49 PM
Jan 10

Last edited Fri Jan 10, 2025, 08:16 PM - Edit history (1)







lostnfound

(16,904 posts)
74. The OP writes of disillusionment. To be dis-illusioned is to free oneself from an illusion
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 05:56 PM
Jan 11

And an illusion is a falsehood.

I expect that the OP is NOT saying that he disagrees with the ideal of liberty and justice for all.

I presume that the OP is removing an illusion from his own mind that the United States, as a country, actually values liberty and justice for all. “Liberty and justice for all” is more of a slogan, a pretense, than an authentic value of the U.S. in 2025.

Pointing out the illusion, the deception, is a community service.

It’s quite a different area from “you can’t love your country only when you win”.
It’s more like “you can’t admit reality only when you are proud of it”.

ancianita

(40,214 posts)
75. The OP writes "I never want to hear..." "Disillusionment" is solely your interpretation, and thanks for your thoughts.
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 06:56 PM
Jan 11

"I never want to hear..." is a statement of permanence.
It 'never wants to hear' any post of Biden OR the Felon saying it. Disillusionment, as you interpret it, is usually a temporary emotion that can drive what one says and does, but one needs to be careful about using always and never driven by a temporary emotion.
It's more helpful to sit with one's disillusionment than to later say "oh I really didn't mean that."

Appreciate your effort, but gotta say that as long as you choose to interpret the OP as disillusionment, any reader can also reasonably interpret "never want to hear" as a permanent removing of oneself from 'small d' democratic talk that reflects on America as an "idea," which Joe Biden has claimed for years. It can also be interpreted as a more permanent loss of faith in ideas upheld and defended by Americans since the founding.

But historically our losses don't reflect the best of our party or the country. Disillusion prevents one from an historical and/or numbers perspective -- that the majority of this country has not voted GOP for a long time, and this time, not for the criminality that surrounds the Felon or the Heritage ideas that will hurt them if enacted. Many high visibility figures have said this.

Overall, the words "never want" only reflect a personal reality. If they prove any relatable exterior reality, it's that rule of law, equality under the law, are down. But not out.

That's just my opinion.

lostnfound

(16,904 posts)
79. Fair points, but on the other hand, pinning one's hope for "democracy" on the U.S. may be antiquated idea
Tue Jan 14, 2025, 04:34 PM
Jan 14

Some of the younger generation that i know is beyond fed up with the US land-of-vultures. They have found opportunity, civility, more educated people in other countries. On occasion they say they’d prefer to never come back, and if currently here, they say they can’t see themselves staying.

If they’ve had the experience of living abroad, they no longer find the US to be the seat of civilization, nor a place of “liberty and justice for all”. It’s not that they don’t believe in “liberty and justice for all” as an ideal, but they admire certain other countries as being closer to that ideal that our own.

You mention “faith in ideas”, but isn’t it “faith in America” where we may have some difference?

sop

(13,386 posts)
28. The same people who make a mockery of the Rule of Law want to make kids pray and read the bible in school.
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 03:52 PM
Jan 10

Permanut

(6,919 posts)
40. and I stopped singing the national anthem many years ago..
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 05:04 PM
Jan 10

"..the land of the free.."

More BS.

DSandra

(1,565 posts)
41. You are made blind to soo many things as someone who grows up in America...
Fri Jan 10, 2025, 06:02 PM
Jan 10










This is just a small sample...

Tetrachloride

(8,635 posts)
50. I keep saying "with liberty and justice for all". regardless of the rest of the world and DU.
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 10:17 AM
Jan 11

I expect it of myself and a few of my family appreciate my view.

Ferrets are Cool

(22,103 posts)
55. Right on!!
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 10:31 AM
Jan 11
Students in elementary schools in my area are COMPELLED to say this bullshit every morning before class. It sickens my stomach to hear the indoctrination and lies coming from their mouths.

Seinan Sensei

(924 posts)
62. "Patriot"
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 11:47 AM
Jan 11

Is another RW go-to word.
To them, any original meaning of this word is lost and gone forever.

Oopsie Daisy

(5,563 posts)
63. I'd be happy if we could permanently and officially omit "Under God" *
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 12:06 PM
Jan 11

* and "In God We Trust".

IzzaNuDay

(914 posts)
64. I quit saying the pledge of allegiance long ago
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 12:08 PM
Jan 11

I don’t do the hands to the heart, don’t say the words.

It’s a farce!

KatjeD

(8 posts)
68. Well, that's one approach. I'd rather scream them at the top of my lungs at the end as an act of shaming and defiance.
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 12:46 PM
Jan 11

Just as I refuse to surrender the flag to the Neo-Nazis and Proud Boys, I'm not about to surrender my pledge to it either. The fascists may choose to think those words don't matter, but I am here to remind them with my last breath: "liberty and justice for all" means LIBERTY and JUSTICE for ALL.

Doc_Technical

(3,652 posts)
70. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State...."
Sat Jan 11, 2025, 02:00 PM
Jan 11

Militias are not necessary now.

As far as I'm concerned, the Second Amendment
only applies to muzzle loading, smooth bore,
black powder firearms.

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