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HereForTheParty

(697 posts)
Thu Jan 2, 2025, 05:58 PM Jan 2

Our aid to Ukraine will not have been for nothing

I suspect most of us are expecting Trump to pressure Z toward a settlement. Even if this happens, the outcome is far better than if we had never become involved.

Putin thought he would roll through in a few weeks and impose his own version of Ukraine. Instead, he's been humiliated by his lack of success. His military and financial resources have been seriously drained. He'd be a damned fool to roll into a more formidable foe like Poland at this point, particularly since they are NATO. I believe anti-war sentiment has grown in Russia with all the Russian death and under performance.

Other NATO countries haven't signaled they would pull out absent Z's consent to a deal. Z has some leverage and a beleaguered opponent. If and when that settlement comes, it will look much better than what Putin had in mind.

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Mike 03

(18,211 posts)
2. Right! Nor have the sanctions been in vain.
Thu Jan 2, 2025, 06:04 PM
Jan 2

The Russian economy, according to the experts who study this, is on the precipice. Two days ago I Googled "Russia Economy" and there were dozens of articles--many from reputable publications--predicting the implosion of the Russian economy in 2025.

Maybe instead of focusing so much on our domestic disaster, I'll watch Russia more closely. I'm hoping that Europe doesn't waver in its support for Ukraine. Poland has been so steadfast from day one--I hope they keep this up while Germany and France sort through the turbulent political times they currently face.

underpants

(189,234 posts)
3. I don't know if there's ever been this disastrous of a military effort
Thu Jan 2, 2025, 06:13 PM
Jan 2

not at least scale anyway. Putin had to be aware of the corruption that, from what I’ve read, lead to lots of resources/equipment not being available.

A complete lack of training. Basic is mostly beating the recruits into obedience. Almost no “lifers” as we called them which means no say to day training and establishing standards. A top heavy structure with Generals way closer to the action than is imaginable.

They’ve been held off and really dominated by basically a civilian turned military force. Lessons learned from 2014. A remarkable performance really.

Putin can’t go anywhere. He can barely retreat.

LetMyPeopleVote

(159,674 posts)
4. Putin has basically destroyed and exposed the weakness of his military
Thu Jan 2, 2025, 06:18 PM
Jan 2

A smaller country has inflicted horrible losses on Putin's military



maxsolomon

(36,024 posts)
5. "Z" is what the Russians paint on their vehicles.
Thu Jan 2, 2025, 06:32 PM
Jan 2

Zelenskyy is the president of Ukraine.

Poland was never threatened. Moldova, yes.

maxsolomon

(36,024 posts)
7. Maybe I'm the "oops".
Thu Jan 2, 2025, 07:11 PM
Jan 2

Perhaps because I think the idea that Trump will "pressure" Putin/Rusher is laughable.

He couldn't "pressure" his way out of a paper sack.

MadameButterfly

(2,624 posts)
8. I think US intelligence under Biden thinks Poland
Thu Jan 2, 2025, 08:18 PM
Jan 2

and the Baltic states are also at risk.

European NATO wont back down, but question is will Trump actually help Russia. I wouldn't rule that out. That would change everything.

maxsolomon

(36,024 posts)
10. "At risk" could mean a Russian invasion is likely,
Fri Jan 3, 2025, 12:48 PM
Jan 3

or could mean there's an infinitesimal, non-zero chance. I lean towards the latter.

At this point, Putin doesn't have the ability to invade a NATO nation, let alone the revanchist need.

And Poland? Why Poland? It's full of Poles, not the Soviet-relocated Russian emigrant population that gave him pretext to invade Ukraine.

yagotme

(4,058 posts)
11. I believe Pooty has the ability to "invade" Poland,
Fri Jan 3, 2025, 12:55 PM
Jan 3

but not the ability to keep/hold any gains, and will eventually get his teeth kicked in if his troops take one step over the border.

MadameButterfly

(2,624 posts)
12. Plenty of revanchist need to restore the Soviet Bloc
Fri Jan 3, 2025, 10:19 PM
Jan 3

It's in the nature of despots like Putin; they never stop craving expansion just like the uber rich never have enough to stop stealing from the poor.
When you ask why, you are assuming there are logical reasons. He isn't normal. He'll find whatever pretext he needs.

US Intelligence was talking about the former, not the latter. Based on evidence.

Putin might not be immediately ready, but it helps to not care how much your actions cause your people to suffer, and to have control over the president of a wealthy nation with lots of weapons.

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