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snot

(10,893 posts)
Sun Dec 22, 2024, 02:14 PM Dec 22

The best health care system in the world

If you set out to design the most complicated, inefficient, ineffective, frustrating, back-*ssed health care system possible, you could not do better than the current US system.

It is effectively designed by, for, and to serve insurance companies, Big Pharma, and middlemen, to funnel a river of taxpayer dollars to insurance and drug cos. while ensuring that the smallest possible amount gets spent on actual care and the ins. cos. et al. charge all they can get away with (which is a lot, since most people prefer health to sickness and death) and otherwise do all they can to deny and delay benefits while imposing admin requirements that either afford additional fee-extraction opportunities or impose massive, externalized man-hour costs on patients, their families, and employers and on doctors and other actual providers of care (not to mention worry, stress, and poorer health).

Our system ensures that there is little or no rhyme or reason as to who gets insurance and what kind; if you live in one state, you may be able to afford insurance; if you live in another state, you may not, or may have to sell or give away your home in order to qualify for Medicaid; and the variations in the kinds of costs of insurance depending on where you live and who you are or aren’t employed by are equally random from the point of view of everyone except the insurers who get to define them.

The goal of those who get to define them is, of course, to extract as much value from the system as possible without actually getting convicted of a crime; and even if a company gets convicted, of course, the executives responsible usually walk away unscathed and on to their next job.

Meanwhile, millions of patients, employers, and providers spend countless hours per year re-evaluating the ever-changing landscape of available plans to decide which ones they’ll purchase or participate in and then applying for them, filing claims and appealing, if they don’t simply give up on it all. (Moreover, in order to apply for Obamacare, you must give up a fair amount of private info; and in order to receive care at all, you must give up a fair amount of private info to gawd knows how many providers and intermediaries – my own info has been on the dark web for years, not because I clicked on something I shouldn't but because those who required the info failed to keep it safe – here again, more uncompensated time, effort, and costs imposted on patients.)

Even after you’ve done your research and selected a plan that you think will cover your needs for the year, committing to it for the next year, the insurer can unilaterally change what it will cover at the drop of a hat. Drugs they said were covered are no longer covered (and in the US, without insurance, you can expect sky-high prices for them); doctors they said were in-network drop out as soon as they can afford to do so; and I’m not sure what other coverages they’re entitled to change at will, while you have no power to switch plans until the year is up.

This system in which concern for profits preempts all others is also destroying the quality of what care we do manage to receive. Doctors, having seen their patients’ claims denied by insurers under an ever-expanding list of pretexts, learn to record in their notes an ever-expanding list of whatever criteria ins. cos. devise. I appreciate the value of records and checklists and don’t mean to suggest they should be discarded altogether, but between these pressures and the challenges of making a living while bearing all the admin costs imposed by our system, it’s to the point that doctors often rush through appointments, barely glancing at their patients, their eyes glued instead to their computers as they check long lists of boxes and cut-and-paste the required language into forms – then exiting as quickly as possible, leaving patients with questions for which they must make additional appointments in order to obtain answers – creating additional burdens and/or costs.

A continual escalation in box-checking and magic-language-repeating requirements imposed by insurers ensures continuing denials and delays in benefit payments and does little to deter fraud, since fraudsters learn at least as quickly as anyone else what boxes to check and what magic language to use.

The system is so onerous that some of the best or most talented doctors or potential doctors either decide to choose other careers, retire early, or charge extra “concierge” fees for their services in order to be able to provide decent, non-rushed care.

There are a great many other aspects of the US health care system that are serious f*cked, and I won’t go into them all; but I think it’s important to at least note in passing that leaving pharmaceutical development and testing in the hands of Big Pharma, together with the endemic revolving-door and other kinds of regulatory capture that we currently allow of the FDA and the CDC as well as other governmental regulatory agencies, have on many occasions resulted in serious harm to patients. One result, of course, is that new drugs or treatments are not always properly tested before they’re allowed into the market, effectively making patients Big Pharma’s unwitting guinea pigs; another is that new drugs or treatments that are unlikely to be profitable aren’t developed at all.

And meanwhile, of course, we have the most expensive system and worst life expectencies of any developed nation in the world.

It doesn't have to be this way.

Canada's health care system, e.g., like those of many other developed nations, is universal, free, and was recently designated by the World Health Organization as the best in the world. We could just copy it, but for our lack of political will.

35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The best health care system in the world (Original Post) snot Dec 22 OP
Ours evolved rather than was designed Turbineguy Dec 22 #1
"Evolved" implies improvement. Siphoning patient $s to non-medical capitalists is not an improvement. erronis Dec 22 #4
Agree. Codifer Dec 22 #10
Any other system would help the poor and fail to enrich the wealthy. BadgerMom Dec 22 #2
Excellent OP - preach. nt TBF Dec 22 #3
100% this! pandr32 Dec 22 #5
IIRC LogDog75 Dec 22 #6
Thank you Dick Nixon WOLFMAN87 Dec 22 #7
There is a tape. Blue Full Moon Dec 22 #18
The other guy WmChris Dec 22 #22
There is no SYSTEM in the U.S. elleng Dec 22 #8
No system but a set of laws and regulations AlexSFCA Dec 22 #14
Great summary - thanks. But maybe when Trump has annexed Canada as our 51st state TheRickles Dec 22 #9
Signature mamacita75 Dec 22 #20
Thanks. "Cowgirls" is a classic, and deservedly so. TheRickles Dec 22 #21
Still, ACA was a massive improvement AlexSFCA Dec 22 #11
K/R. Michael Moore's recent article on the US Heathcare Industry: appalachiablue Dec 22 #12
Thank Joe Lieberman... Grumpy Old Guy Dec 22 #13
Bingo!! Lieberman was a shameless sock puppet for the insurance industry. MMBeilis Dec 22 #16
Remember death panels? Farmer-Rick Dec 23 #23
and the "patient portals" that keep them from having actual humans answering phones, scheduling and Rx's. Evolve Dammit Dec 22 #15
YES snot Dec 23 #30
"...but for our lack of political will." J_William_Ryan Dec 22 #17
But snot Dec 23 #31
We need national healthcare. Beck23 Dec 22 #19
One risk pool is a health care system. Multiple risk pools is an investment scheme. Ron Green Dec 23 #24
The Preamble says... GiqueCee Dec 23 #25
The good news is the entire House and a third of the Senate is elected every 2 years and of course the POTUS every 4 - walkingman Dec 23 #26
I'm interested in an organization called Represent.Us - snot Dec 23 #32
Started with the DixieCrats IbogaProject Dec 23 #27
I'm going full-on Pollyanna with healthcare and current destructive policies of TSF duhneece Dec 23 #28
Your function is to produce wealth and push it all up the pyramid before you die. Hermit-The-Prog Dec 23 #29
We have the best healthcare system in the world if you can afford it. Northern_Light Dec 23 #33
My DH is a mechanic; he fixes hospital equipment Bettie Dec 23 #34
Better at being worse: Our old pre-Obamacare system. Festivito Dec 23 #35

Turbineguy

(38,566 posts)
1. Ours evolved rather than was designed
Sun Dec 22, 2024, 03:00 PM
Dec 22

There are a number of successful models we could emulate. I hear the French have a good system.

erronis

(17,339 posts)
4. "Evolved" implies improvement. Siphoning patient $s to non-medical capitalists is not an improvement.
Sun Dec 22, 2024, 03:15 PM
Dec 22

Last edited Sun Dec 22, 2024, 04:19 PM - Edit history (1)

I do remember growing up in a small rural town with family doctors who made house-calls, a small local hospital, larger hospitals a couple of hours away. Medical bills were paid directly as possible (some bartering still went on.) There were no "pre-approvals" or "claim denials". I'm sure there were financial hardships but they weren't because of insurance behemoths demanding their 10 pounds of flesh.

BadgerMom

(3,002 posts)
2. Any other system would help the poor and fail to enrich the wealthy.
Sun Dec 22, 2024, 03:03 PM
Dec 22

Why would wealthy white jerks want that? /s

LogDog75

(212 posts)
6. IIRC
Sun Dec 22, 2024, 03:29 PM
Dec 22

Each of the Canadian provinces funds the healthcare system rather than the Canadian government. Still, it's better than the U.S. healthcare system where people aren't viewed as patients but as profit centers. If the U.S. were to adopt the Canadian model the major needed would be not to rely upon the individual states for funding but by the federal government. Each state then can supplement federal funding if they want to.

I'd like to see a healthcare system in the U.S. like they have in Europe or even Canada.

AlexSFCA

(6,275 posts)
14. No system but a set of laws and regulations
Sun Dec 22, 2024, 04:23 PM
Dec 22

CA and WA are pretty good for healthcare markets. States that opted out of medicaid are much worse.

TheRickles

(2,505 posts)
9. Great summary - thanks. But maybe when Trump has annexed Canada as our 51st state
Sun Dec 22, 2024, 04:10 PM
Dec 22

Their model will spread to the other 50. (probably not, but it's an interesting thought.....)

mamacita75

(149 posts)
20. Signature
Sun Dec 22, 2024, 06:01 PM
Dec 22

Your signature line is great. I have never seen that one before.
Appreciate your input.

TheRickles

(2,505 posts)
21. Thanks. "Cowgirls" is a classic, and deservedly so.
Sun Dec 22, 2024, 08:08 PM
Dec 22

Check out the book to learn about the wise man who says that quote.

AlexSFCA

(6,275 posts)
11. Still, ACA was a massive improvement
Sun Dec 22, 2024, 04:19 PM
Dec 22

just the fact that you cannot be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions and that parents can keep their kids covered as dependents through 26 y.o. is huge. The health coverage and insurance market in 2007 was much much worse. Like everything, it’s location dependent, same with schools, zip code determines a fundamental difference in public schools.

appalachiablue

(43,230 posts)
12. K/R. Michael Moore's recent article on the US Heathcare Industry:
Sun Dec 22, 2024, 04:20 PM
Dec 22

Here’s a sad statistic for you: In the United States, we have a whopping 1.4 million people employed with the job of DENYING HEALTH CARE, vs only 1 million doctors in the entire country!

That’s all you need to know about America. We pay more people to deny care than to give it...
https://www.democraticunderground.com/

Farmer-Rick

(11,579 posts)
23. Remember death panels?
Mon Dec 23, 2024, 09:46 AM
Dec 23

That's what I remember Sarah Palin for.

Oh those imaginary death panels that never got explained or understood. But they were in someone's imaginary single payer plan.

It was because of the need for triage that she made up that BS.

Funny how we now have a large group of filthy- rich people making life and death decisions right now and people are dying from a lack of medical attention. But those aren't considered death panels.

The right wing went all out on the propaganda to keep us from having a functional medical system.

Evolve Dammit

(19,315 posts)
15. and the "patient portals" that keep them from having actual humans answering phones, scheduling and Rx's.
Sun Dec 22, 2024, 04:30 PM
Dec 22

J_William_Ryan

(2,310 posts)
17. "...but for our lack of political will."
Sun Dec 22, 2024, 05:02 PM
Dec 22

But for rightwing ideologues with their lies and demagoguery about ‘socialism,’ ‘communism,’ and ‘I have to wait six months for routine surgery.'

It wasn’t always like this.

In the 50s, 60s and early 70s, 95 percent of medical treatment was done in hospitals – no surgery centers or outpatient clinics.

You saw your doctor for simple things – shots, prescriptions, a few stiches; and most Americans could afford to see a doctor, no health insurance needed.

If you needed more advanced medical treatment you were admitted to the hospital where you used health insurance – private or Medicare.

And in those days health insurance was like homeowner’s insurance or car insurance, you rarely used it – if at all.

Then came the explosion of medical treatment and technology – and an explosion of medical costs; now you needed medical insurance to see your doctor, you couldn’t afford to see a doctor otherwise.

Insurance companies responded to the cost explosion by prioritizing profit over patient care.

snot

(10,893 posts)
31. But
Mon Dec 23, 2024, 01:12 PM
Dec 23

too many – nearly all! – Dems have also been so captured by the health care capitalists that they don't even bother to ask for what we want. (Remember how Obama took the public option off the table before negotiations even began?)

Republicans have successfully pushed us to where we are now by consistently making demands that initially seemed outrageous but eventually became normalized. We need Dems to start demanding free, universal health care, stronger protections for unionization, much stronger Wall St. regulation, etc. etc.

"A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not worth even glancing at, for it leaves out the one country at which Humanity is always landing. And when Humanity lands there, it looks out, and, seeing a better country, sets sail. Progress is the realisation of Utopias."

– Oscar Wilde (1897), Collected Works of Oscar Wilde: The Plays, the Poems, the Stories and the Essays Including De Profundis”, p.1051, Wordsworth Editions.

Ron Green

(9,852 posts)
24. One risk pool is a health care system. Multiple risk pools is an investment scheme.
Mon Dec 23, 2024, 09:59 AM
Dec 23

We have enough investment schemes in this country; we need a health care system.

GiqueCee

(1,584 posts)
25. The Preamble says...
Mon Dec 23, 2024, 10:44 AM
Dec 23

... "promote the general Welfare". It says nothing about predatory financial exploitation of those in need of care.

Incidentally, when you Google "The Common Good in the Constitution", the first thing that pops up is from the Heritage Foundation. How fucked up is THAT? Those sociopaths do NOT do "Common Good", or "General Welfare". They do greed, malice, and deceit.

walkingman

(8,636 posts)
26. The good news is the entire House and a third of the Senate is elected every 2 years and of course the POTUS every 4 -
Mon Dec 23, 2024, 10:56 AM
Dec 23

we can change this if we simply elect people in both parties that are not paid employees of the billionaire class.

But whining is not the same as informed voting.

Wake Up, Wake Up, Wake Up!

snot

(10,893 posts)
32. I'm interested in an organization called Represent.Us -
Mon Dec 23, 2024, 01:18 PM
Dec 23

that's also its URL. They recognize how Citizens United, the regulatory revolving doors, etc. have enabled Big $ to capture Congress, and they've formulated what's just about the only plan I know of that might have a chance to actually reverse that tide.

The plan involves getting honest people into the political pipeline at the local level so that there will eventually be better candidates available up the food chain, as well as measures to improve accountability to voters and systematically close the loopholes that currently allow "legalized corruption."

IbogaProject

(3,897 posts)
27. Started with the DixieCrats
Mon Dec 23, 2024, 10:57 AM
Dec 23

They blocked going for a national health system in the 1940s as the Dixiecrats refused to cover minorities. Then the AMA decided to keep the number of medical students too low to provide enough Doctors for a growing population. Everywhere else went universal between the 40s & 70s.

duhneece

(4,275 posts)
28. I'm going full-on Pollyanna with healthcare and current destructive policies of TSF
Mon Dec 23, 2024, 11:13 AM
Dec 23

If everything falls apart in the coming few years, I’m going to fight for truly good, affordable, accessible healthcare. The easiest transition I’ve read about is Medicare for All.

Northern_Light

(27 posts)
33. We have the best healthcare system in the world if you can afford it.
Mon Dec 23, 2024, 01:56 PM
Dec 23

We hear all the time about people coming to the US for medical care. I'm pretty sure those people are wealthy enough to afford it. Why else would Americans go overseas for medical care that they can afford.

Bettie

(17,471 posts)
34. My DH is a mechanic; he fixes hospital equipment
Mon Dec 23, 2024, 02:02 PM
Dec 23

whenever someone says we have the best health care system in the world, he corrects them.

He says we have the best health care INFRASTRUCTURE in the world, combined with a system that is designed to move cash from the people who can't afford it to the people who don't need it and it is VERY efficient at the task it has been designed for.

The sad thing is that our system could deliver care to our population, but being designed for each step of care costing more than the one before and insurance able to deny at any step of the process, that doesn't happen far too often.

And miss me with "but health insurance companies are the BEST".

Festivito

(13,624 posts)
35. Better at being worse: Our old pre-Obamacare system.
Mon Dec 23, 2024, 02:12 PM
Dec 23

We stole land from indigenous Indians.
We stole work from slaves.
We stole raw materials from poor countries who owe us for the munitions we sold them.
We stole potential Social Security money by giving it to the rich in the form of tax breaks.
We stole even more to pay interest on the money we borrowed in order to give those tax breaks.
We have little left but to steal from each other. Got health care? Here we come!

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