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onecaliberal

(36,314 posts)
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 10:15 AM Dec 14

This message was self-deleted by its author

This message was self-deleted by its author (onecaliberal) on Sat Dec 14, 2024, 08:56 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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This message was self-deleted by its author (Original Post) onecaliberal Dec 14 OP
This! Hope22 Dec 14 #1
Thieves don't usually pay back the money they steal. Irish_Dem Dec 14 #2
That will never happen. Autumn Dec 14 #3
Watch Wall Street contributions rise as Republicans move closer to handing NoMoreRepugs Dec 14 #4
it is aready there. rampartd Dec 14 #5
Finance is not everyone's cup of tea. Thanks for sharing this. ❤️ littlemissmartypants Dec 14 #8
Well sort of Farmer-Rick Dec 14 #6
Pay it back? Dave Id Dec 14 #7
Is this why republicans want to get rid of ss? vapor2 Dec 14 #9
⭐️"THEY" ARE ALREADY PAYING IT BACK. The trust fund assets are already being cashed in because SS benefits nmmi Dec 14 #10
Well, it funded bush's illegal war in the Middle East for a decade. I'm sure it will take a while for 3 trillion onecaliberal Dec 14 #11
It's expected to take 10 years. The Treasury just sells Treasuries to the public to raise the money it nmmi Dec 14 #12
If they lift the cap, it will take one minute. onecaliberal Dec 14 #14
Huh? Another linkless assertion of opinion as fact. I provided a link to the Congressional Research Service nmmi Dec 14 #16
I will take the word of experts with decades of experience. onecaliberal Dec 14 #17
" I will take the word of experts with decades of experience." nmmi Dec 14 #18
The wealthy and uber rich DENVERPOPS Dec 14 #19
This is just untrue. Several posts clarified the truth. frogstar0 Dec 14 #13
this!👆 nmmi Dec 14 #20
THIS malaise Dec 14 #15
Fica surplus is invested in treasury notes. Voltaire2 Dec 14 #21
"Congress Needs To..." MineralMan Dec 14 #22
Data and information melm00se Dec 14 #23
Research Note #4: Inter-Fund Borrowing Among the Trust Funds Passages Dec 14 #24

Hope22

(3,101 posts)
1. This!
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 10:21 AM
Dec 14

Irish_Dem

(59,687 posts)
2. Thieves don't usually pay back the money they steal.
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 10:25 AM
Dec 14

Unless someone makes them do so.

And no one will make these thieves pay.

The best sociopaths don't break the law, they make the law.

Autumn

(46,660 posts)
3. That will never happen.
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 10:26 AM
Dec 14

NoMoreRepugs

(10,646 posts)
4. Watch Wall Street contributions rise as Republicans move closer to handing
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 10:33 AM
Dec 14

the Trust Fund over to them. Never stop following the money.

rampartd

(863 posts)
5. it is aready there.
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 10:46 AM
Dec 14

the social security trust is invested in government debt

money = government debt. if they printed trillions of dollar bills that is exactly the same as trillions if t notes or ee bonds. or whichever antique machine running 8" tape issued by the federal reserve and representing government debt.

"The process by which banks create money is so simple the mind is repelled. " John Kenneth Galbraith,

littlemissmartypants

(25,889 posts)
8. Finance is not everyone's cup of tea. Thanks for sharing this. ❤️
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 10:51 AM
Dec 14

Farmer-Rick

(11,538 posts)
6. Well sort of
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 10:48 AM
Dec 14

The federal government borrows money from Social Security's asset reserves. The Social Security Administration (SSA) invests the money in Treasury securities, which are backed by the U.S. government. The government borrows money from Social Security by selling these securities, and it pays interest on the amount borrowed.

Social Security's funding and payouts are separate from the federal government's General Fund. The Treasury uses cash from Social Security and other sources to pay the government's bills before borrowing more money.

The U.S. government has never defaulted on its obligations, has never failed to make an interest payment and investors consider U.S. government securities to be one of the world's safest investments. Up until the Nazi fascists took over.

Dave Id

(53 posts)
7. Pay it back?
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 10:51 AM
Dec 14

Pay it back? Congress wants to steal every dime from Social Security and give to their billionaire dollar donners.

vapor2

(1,632 posts)
9. Is this why republicans want to get rid of ss?
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 10:57 AM
Dec 14

nmmi

(203 posts)
10. ⭐️"THEY" ARE ALREADY PAYING IT BACK. The trust fund assets are already being cashed in because SS benefits
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 10:59 AM
Dec 14

exceed SS income.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/


Table 4: TRUST FUND OPERATIONS, 2023
....................... OASI   DI
Net change in Reserves -70.4 29.0

. . .
Since 2021, the OASI Trust Fund has been drawing down asset reserves to finance benefits and will require increasing amounts of asset redemptions during the next decade. The OASI Trust Fund has a projected reserve depletion date of 2033, the same year as in last year’s report.

The DI Trust Fund is projected to remain solvent throughout the long-range period, as in last year’s report. The DI trust fund ratio increases throughout the projection period from 92 percent at the beginning of 2024 to 858 percent for 2098.

The Trustees project that the combined OASI and DI Trust Fund reserves will continue to decrease in 2024 because total cost ($1,482 billion) is expected to exceed total income ($1,382 billion). For OASDI, the Trustees project that total cost will exceed total income in all future years, as it has starting in 2021.


The process is automatic and will continue unless Congress changes the law

I have some Treasuries too -- some I-bonds and a TIPs bond, plus whatever Treasuries is in various bond funds that I have. They are backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government, just like the securities in the trust funds.

onecaliberal

(36,314 posts)
11. Well, it funded bush's illegal war in the Middle East for a decade. I'm sure it will take a while for 3 trillion
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 11:03 AM
Dec 14

To be returned.

The other issue is they don’t want to pay the tax on their entire income. The way us peasants are required.
Lift the cap. Problem solved.

nmmi

(203 posts)
12. It's expected to take 10 years. The Treasury just sells Treasuries to the public to raise the money it
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 11:20 AM
Dec 14

needs for whatever purposes it needs it for, as it always has.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/

• The Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund will be able to pay 100 percent of total scheduled benefits until 2033, unchanged from last year's report. At that time, the fund's reserves will become depleted and continuing program income will be sufficient to pay 79 percent of scheduled benefits.

• The Disability Insurance (DI) Trust Fund is projected to be able to pay 100 percent of total scheduled benefits through at least 2098, the last year of this report's projection period. Last year's report projected that the DI Trust Fund would be able to pay scheduled benefits through at least 2097, the last year of that report's projection period.

• If the OASI Trust Fund and the DI Trust Fund projections are combined, the resulting projected fund (designated OASDI) would be able to pay 100 percent of total scheduled benefits until 2035, one year later than reported last year. At that time, the projected fund's reserves will become depleted and continuing total fund income will be sufficient to pay 83 percent of scheduled benefits. (The two funds could not actually be combined unless there were a change in the law, but the combined projection of the two funds is frequently used to indicate the overall status of the Social Security program.)


=====================================================

The other issue is they don’t want to pay the tax on their entire income. The way us peasants are required.
Lift the cap. Problem solved.


It isn't enough to solve the problem, but it's a good idea, and it will go a long way towards solving it.

per Congressional rResearch Service Dec 2021. https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/RL32896.pdf

onecaliberal

(36,314 posts)
14. If they lift the cap, it will take one minute.
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 11:21 AM
Dec 14

Peace out!

nmmi

(203 posts)
16. Huh? Another linkless assertion of opinion as fact. I provided a link to the Congressional Research Service
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 11:26 AM
Dec 14

saying lifting the cap won't completely resolve the imbalance. You have provided a linkless assertion of opinion as fact.

onecaliberal

(36,314 posts)
17. I will take the word of experts with decades of experience.
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 11:27 AM
Dec 14

I’m done responding.

nmmi

(203 posts)
18. " I will take the word of experts with decades of experience."
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 11:30 AM
Dec 14

Another linkless assertion of opinion as facts. The only people who say lifting the cap will completely solve the problem are message board randos.

Edited to add - whether or not lifting the cap completely solves the problem or not is a minor issue anyway -- at worst, lifting the cap will extend the solvency date for a long time.

The more serious misinformation is:

Congress needs to pay back the money to the SS trust fund. Congress borrowed $2.9 trillion from social security. They have been paying us interest. They’re paying us interest because it’s not their money it’s ours. They never put a dime into otherwise.
(emphasis added by nmmi)

The general fund is paying back the trust funds as documented in #10. /END EDIT

DENVERPOPS

(10,147 posts)
19. The wealthy and uber rich
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 11:35 AM
Dec 14

don't pay SS. SS is only collected on WAGES and they make all their money with investments, and their so-called "investment income" is not considered "wages".

Simply put.......Our Government is the best money can buy.....and the Republican Party and our soon to be President, AND the members of the House and Senate are the epitome of that fact...........

frogstar0

(120 posts)
13. This is just untrue. Several posts clarified the truth.
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 11:21 AM
Dec 14

Or you can do a little digging on line and understand that the real process is. Please stop posting this false information. There are real issues that need to be addressed with SS and flooding the internet with false information makes it harder to get it fixed.

nmmi

(203 posts)
20. this!👆
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 11:37 AM
Dec 14

Some people shamelessly mislead their fellow progressives.

malaise

(278,771 posts)
15. THIS
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 11:21 AM
Dec 14

Rec

Voltaire2

(14,869 posts)
21. Fica surplus is invested in treasury notes.
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 11:39 AM
Dec 14

Those notes are interest paying and are redeemed as needed to cover any deficit in current benefit payments.

It is simply a myth that somehow Congress spent the ss trust fund.



MineralMan

(147,987 posts)
22. "Congress Needs To..."
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 11:46 AM
Dec 14

Do a lot of things. Guess what, though? It might do them if Democrats could get and hold strong majorities in both houses of Congress, as well as getting and holding the White House. But we don't have either of those things. So, we aren't going to be able to get Congress to do any damned thing. We can yell and scream and kick our heels on the ground, but as long as Congress and the White House are in Republican hands, we ain't gonna get what we want.

So, that's the consequence of failing to win elections. It sucks. We should do better about that, I think.

melm00se

(5,075 posts)
23. Data and information
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 11:47 AM
Dec 14

only

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/assets.html





https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4a3.html

This shows income, costs, assets and change in asset balances.

Passages

(1,430 posts)
24. Research Note #4: Inter-Fund Borrowing Among the Trust Funds
Sat Dec 14, 2024, 11:48 AM
Dec 14

In the early 1980s the Social Security Trust Funds had developed short-term cash flow problems, as a result of the adverse performance of the economy during the "stagflation" of the 1970s. As a stop-gap measure, Congress passed legislation in 1981 to permit inter-fund borrowing among the three Trust Funds (the Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund; the Disability Trust Fund; and the Medicare Trust Fund). This authority was to lapse at the end of 1982. However, the 1983 Amendments extended the inter-fund borrowing authority to the end of 1987. Under the law as amended, all loans would have to be repaid by the end of 1989.

The inter-fund loans were required to be repaid with an amount of interest equal to that which the loaning fund would have earned had it had use of the money during this time. In other words, the borrowing fund was required to make the loaning fund whole at the end of the process.

This authority was used twice, once in November 1982 and once in December 1982. The total amount borrowed was $17.5 billion. The Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund borrowed the money-$5.1 billion from the Disability Trust Fund and $12.4 billion from the Medicare Trust Fund. Repayment began in 1985 and the debt to the Medicare Trust Fund was paid off by January 1986 and the debt to the Disability Trust Fund was liquidated in April 1986.
Larry DeWitt
SSA Historian's Office
12/17/98
https://www.ssa.gov/history/interfundnote.html

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